sycamore tuff
The Wade Level
Win and they will come. A bad attended football game is about 3000. That's about what we were getting for basketball before they started winning.
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Western Illinois to the OVC
- Thread starter Sycamorefan96
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I just did a quick check. We were averaging just over 5000 per game through October. We had two home games in November that had poor attendances of 2500 each, but by that time our team had only won one game and I'm sure the weather wasn't particularly great for either game. I was at the Senior Day game against MSU and it was quite chilly that day.
en.wikipedia.org
2022 Indiana State Sycamores football team - Wikipedia
And he's STILL not in the ISU HOF.
bent20
The Odum Level
We haven't won in many, many years.
sycamore tuff
The Wade Level
I know. That doesn't do anything to prove any of us right or wrong. It still leaves us without an answer to what would happen if we did win consistently.
Nonsense. We won consistently from 2009-2014 and it didn’t happen. We both know it as we used to chat at those very games. Since then college attendance has dropped and college athletics attendance has as well.
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Prisonmate
The Varsity Level
Football is a lot more expensive and has less games to draw revenue, so the bar for attendance to breakeven or provide a ROI is significantly higher.
This. I really don't understand why people think all we need to do is win and people will show up for football games. We did that in the not so recent past and what do we have? Keep in mind in that time, we beat Western Kentucky, Ball State, should of beat IU, won a play-off game, had a generational talent, hell we currently have a couple guys on NFL rosters and playing. and what did it get us? Those were great moments, and I loved every second of it. But what did it get us? The football program is in a COMPLETELY different division of college athletics than the rest of our athletic programs. We will NEVER become NDSU, we aren't built to become NDSU. We ARE built to become a solid basketball school, and we currently have the pieces in place to become an anomaly for baseball (cold weather, mid-major).
College football is only played on Saturdays. That means every Saturday we are competing with Notre Dame, Purdue, IU, Bama vs. Georgia, Texas vs. Oklahoma, Michigan vs. Ohio State, etc. We aren't winning those battles.
We also beat #1 NDSU at their house. That 5 year run was the litmus test to see if the greater Terre Haute area would support the program long term. They didn't.
Look, I love football. I would have loved to be proven wrong here. But at some point, rational adults need to have the tough discussions and no matter what analytical tool you use, you cannot come to any conclusion but the football program is a financial albatross the the athletic department and school. After Title IX is brought into the equation since you have to match male-to-female opportunities, you can attribute a direct/indirect cost of almost $10m to the program. Maybe more.
Enrollment is down. Attendance is down. Our athletics department is subsidized to the hilt through student fees and institutional spending. Costs are up and our economy is nearing a recession while our currency is inflating away. We still have inferior facilities. We here all the time from some posters that we don't give the players enough AND, the big one, is with NIL now here, the next narrative that is bubbling up quickly is that revenues sports need to move to a revenue sharing model.
We can't keep doing this. It's not fucking sustainable. If it is a matter of cutting football and moving to a more streamlined sport offering versus ultimately having to severely underfund programs, drop to an inferior conference, or drop athletics altogether, this should be a simple choice by people with logical and rational thinking abilities.
Well said. Sad, but well said. I think it will be time to have these talks if ISU doesn't make the playoffs this year. This 2023 slate is the easiest schedule (including easier-than-usual money games with little-to-no travel costs) in many, many years. I have to think the program will net +/- $1,000,000 in buy-game money this year. They don't have to fly and probably don't need lodging the night before either game....especially since the IU game will be on a Friday night. I know BSU is paying 300k. Can't find the IU payday but heck they paid Idaho 1.2mil to come to Bton so I assume they're paying ISU at least 500-750k.
Oh, and ISU has raised nearly $100,000,000 in the last 2 years. Let's see where that money lands.....
ISU will probably keep football for as long as we can get the big FBS paydays or until Memorial Stadium collapses (whichever comes first). Outside of the FBS game, ISU keeps football and all of its D1 sports funded mostly through student fees. They're all money losers, although I would agree that men's basketball is the only sport that could potentially make ISU money. Even with our reduced enrollment there are many schools out there that are way worse off than us that still have FCS Football. If we were to ever drop the sport they would just piss that money away elsewhere; after all it is a government school.
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Yeah, I had really hoped they parlayed that era into long term. Speaking of money, was looking at the Knight Commission database today and noticed the school pulled back on football spending and we have now fallen under the FCS median. They gave the program almost a decade above the median to do something and they failed. Will be interesting to see if that was just a pullback coming out of COVID or not. Here are the numbers:
Athletic "Revenues"
Football Spending
Football Coaching Salaries
Athletic Facilities Debt
Source:
Indiana State University | College Athletics Database
sycamore tuff
The Wade Level
35 - 40 yrs ago i suggested we stay independent and schedule all 1-A schools on the road except for homecoming which was a big game for us. My point was that we could get a lot of big paydays and probably win one eventually and make the news. That in turn would help with recruiting and we could win more often and still make money. Of course that had zero chance of ever happening but it was thinking outside the proverbial box.
Only on Saturdays used to be true... the MAC now consistently holds games on Thursdays, games are now on Friday nights...
This season there are 34 games on Thurs & Fri... even a game on an early (pre-NFL) Sunday
But yes -- college football is an incredibly tough ticket to sell in The Haute
https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football-schedule/2023-college-football-schedule
Of the $100,000,000 - what was the athl department's goal?
Arguably, MOST of that $$$ was for the University mission... (i.e. NOT subsidizing a football program)
bent20
The Odum Level
And the most spending came in the Mallory era. Would have been interesting to see what a better coach would have done with that opportunity. Maybe one who at least is smart enough to realize offense draws fans. I mean, if you're going to lose a lot and be terrible, at least be entertaining. Watching you limit the opponent to 17 points while going three and out over is not going to keep many coming back.
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And he just got a healthy contract extension, as did the AD that extended him, as did the President that extended the AD.
Curt is an awesome guy and I would normally say he has to win this year with such an easy schedule (by MVFC standards) or he'd be on the hot seat....but that discussion could very well devolve into more "can ISU afford the buyout?" talk which plagued this board from 2016-2020.
ST_Lawson
The White Level
Yeah, come on over. Maybe we could even convince ILSU and SIU to join us. OVC was really hurting for football members, I'd bet they'd be on board with a few football-only associate members. You all can keep the rest of your sports in the MVC...I do NOT want to try to compete with you guys in basketball.
Don't worry the Dakota States and MO State will more than likely be moving on. Let's try and not dumb down out of the Valley until we understand the lay of the land. I personally think the OVC is train wreck.
In some ways I have concerns about the MVFC's long term future.
MOSU's administration has made it very clear that they want to move up. The Sun Belt seems to be their goal.
NDSU was very open about voting against Murray State. Usually schools don't get that loud unless they don't plan on being around too much longer. If NDSU leaves I'm sure SDSU will want to move up too.
The schools I also have questions about are Southern Illinois, Illinois State, and Youngstown State. I think Illinois State would strongly consider going to the MAC and perhaps SIU would too if they had the opportunity. Basketball probably keeps them both around for a while longer, but if the MVC doesn't improve then there isn't too much incentive left for them to stay besides their history with certain MVC programs.
Youngstown State on the other hand is the far eastern outlier. The perfect home for them would be the MAC purely based on geography and their close proximity to Akron and Kent State. Ohio, Miami, Toledo, and Bowling Green (all OH schools) are also in that league. If their desire was to stay FCS then the CAA could also make more sense for them.
I can't really see ISU, Murray State, or UNI considering moving elsewhere. UND and USD will likely stick around as long as the Summit League remains stable.