*theres really no need to blow money on football when you are a one win team
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2025-26 Around The Valley
- Thread starter Jason Svoboda
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No need to blow money on OVC teams when we could join their conference and play them for free.*theres really no need to blow money on football when you are a one win team
Fixed it for you
We’d get to play them twice for free, Double the value. Hell, we then could get bought out by MVC teams for 85k then. Then we could take that money earned off of MVC teams and money saved by not paying OVC teams (because we are in their conference) and then we could fund some visitor bleachers for memorial stadium so all the Lindenwood fans have a nice aluminum seat for their booties. Surely they will bring a ton of fans and ISU will be sitting on mountains of cash in a few years. All because infinite money glitch you have found
Sounds like a solid plan to me. I'm sure the OVC's TV contract pays out about the same amount of money as the MVC's, so we probably would make more money in the OVC at the end of the year.
We’d get to play them twice for free, Double the value. Hell, we then could get bought out by MVC teams for 85k then. Then we could take that money earned off of MVC teams and money saved by not paying OVC teams (because we are in their conference) and then we could fund some visitor bleachers for memorial stadium so all the Lindenwood fans have a nice aluminum seat for their booties. Surely they will bring a ton of fans and ISU will be sitting on mountains of cash in a few years. All because infinite money glitch you have found
Westbadenboy
The All-MVC Level
Alright, I've sat and read all this bullshit you guys are spitting out about it does not matter who we play in pre-conference --- the MVC is a one bid league. Win ARCH MADNESS or go home. I'm going to defy all that BS....because it is total BS.
1. You keep playing very low level Div I and Div II schools pretty soon we're back to attendance of 3300 (with actual butts in the seats of 1500 !)
2. Kids do notice crowds, fan backing, atmosphere etc when being recruited --- many of them mentioned these factors in chosing ISU
3. You really think students will show up in numbers above about 23 with continued games vs the no bodies ???
4. You take the above and pump into the money side --- poor attendance, no student interest, no atmosphere, poor players and boom ! You got no funds to have a decent program and it spirals down even more.
5. You play nobodies in pre-conference and even if you have good players you're not prepared for the conference, get a low seed in Arch Madness, rarely even get a win in St Louis and your reputation nose dives even more.
ISU had better bust its butt to avoid thinking like many of you. Do everything it can to boast every aspect of it program --- and getting the best schedule it can is probably near the top of the list.
Some genius among the so-called Mid majors had better figure out quickly how to get home and home contracts set up where no one pays anyone. Each school has a couple home games vs a good level school, also plays a couple similiar type schools on the road, gets a couple regional "rival" games like ISU vs Ball St, gets a couple money games vs the big boys on the road, and then drops in a couple of those "Who the Hell is that college and where is it located ?" games.
If the mid-major schedules are as a bad as it seems they are, failing to do the above means we are contributing to our own demise.
And God forbid, don't take on the strategy recommended by many of the previous posts
1. You keep playing very low level Div I and Div II schools pretty soon we're back to attendance of 3300 (with actual butts in the seats of 1500 !)
2. Kids do notice crowds, fan backing, atmosphere etc when being recruited --- many of them mentioned these factors in chosing ISU
3. You really think students will show up in numbers above about 23 with continued games vs the no bodies ???
4. You take the above and pump into the money side --- poor attendance, no student interest, no atmosphere, poor players and boom ! You got no funds to have a decent program and it spirals down even more.
5. You play nobodies in pre-conference and even if you have good players you're not prepared for the conference, get a low seed in Arch Madness, rarely even get a win in St Louis and your reputation nose dives even more.
ISU had better bust its butt to avoid thinking like many of you. Do everything it can to boast every aspect of it program --- and getting the best schedule it can is probably near the top of the list.
Some genius among the so-called Mid majors had better figure out quickly how to get home and home contracts set up where no one pays anyone. Each school has a couple home games vs a good level school, also plays a couple similiar type schools on the road, gets a couple regional "rival" games like ISU vs Ball St, gets a couple money games vs the big boys on the road, and then drops in a couple of those "Who the Hell is that college and where is it located ?" games.
If the mid-major schedules are as a bad as it seems they are, failing to do the above means we are contributing to our own demise.
And God forbid, don't take on the strategy recommended by many of the previous posts
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In this landscape I’m sure there’s a way to make it happen
MGM Resorts and Circa were official sponsors/partners of the College Basketball Crown that was here in Vegas last year. So, yeah, it's doable in some capacity.
Westbadenboy
The All-MVC Level
Just as I suspected would happen ......several members of this forum make silly arguments that show no depth of thinking. I come on with a list of reasons why their statements are silly and thoughtless. And what happens ???
Nothing ......Nothing
No replies with solid arguments why they were right and I'm wrong.
No replies with admissions of "wow, Westbadenboy is right"
Unbelieveable
Nothing ......Nothing
No replies with solid arguments why they were right and I'm wrong.
No replies with admissions of "wow, Westbadenboy is right"
Unbelieveable
Ok, I'll bite. You're obviously not feeling enough love, so I'll jump in the pool.
1. You keep playing very low level Div I and Div II schools pretty soon we're back to attendance of 3300 (with actual butts in the seats of 1500 !) I'm not sure we're going to get big non-con crowds regardless of who we play. You're competing with Christmas, Thanksgiving, and then the students leave. We're never going to get big names to come to HC (no more IU or Purdue games there), but I agree that mid-majors should be entering into home and home series, but too many mid-major athletic departments are run by less-than-intelligent (and that's putting it mildly) people.
2. Kids do notice crowds, fan backing, atmosphere etc when being recruited --- many of them mentioned these factors in chosing ISU Yes. Recruits do notice support. We need though, to some degree, to pad the schedule because if you come out of non-con at 3-8, even if playing a tough schedule, you're not going to get much of a crowd no matter how you do in conference. I think scheduling is a bit of a high-wire act, balancing prepping for conference with building confidence and with building crowds. But winning solves a lot of problems.
3. You really think students will show up in numbers above about 23 with continued games vs the no bodies ??? Yes. See 23-24. If you win, they will come.
4. You take the above and pump into the money side --- poor attendance, no student interest, no atmosphere, poor players and boom ! You got no funds to have a decent program and it spirals down even more. If only there was a way to save $4M that could greatly benefit our flagship sport. Hmmm...if only...
5. You play nobodies in pre-conference and even if you have good players you're not prepared for the conference, get a low seed in Arch Madness, rarely even get a win in St Louis and your reputation nose dives even more. Not necessarily true. Once again, see 23-24. Not a great schedule outside of Alabama and MSU. If your coach knows how to identify talent, and can actually coach, your team will improve with each game, no matter who the opponent is. And getting beaten by 10 B1G teams in non-con would, in your theory, put us in a position to steamroll through the conference. However, that's not the case as they would be so mentally beat up that they would check out by Christmas. Once again, I think scheduling is a bit of a high-wire act. The coaches have to balance a lot of factors, more than just name recognition.
You make some good points, but we can't load the non-con with top 100 teams. We've got to give our players chances to experience how the system should work, and many times you get that by playing inferior opponents. Test some, but build confidence in what you're getting them to run. But I'm all in on not understanding why mid-majors don't see that home and home series are the way. But these AD's are the same idiots who gave up all power to the P5 a few years back. Not working with intellectual aristocracy here...
Here's the problem. Forget IU and Purdue for a second. The teams we'd probably like to play in a H-H such as Butler, Loyola, St Louis, Dayton, Depaul, Creighton, Wichita, etc feel as if we're beneath them and won't play us in TH. It's great if we can get H-H games against HL, OVC, and Summit schools; but I think most of them are looking for buy games.
If it comes down to us paying $80K for a buy game against IUPUI or $40K for UIndy, I don't see how paying double for IUPUI moves the needle at all for us in crowd size or really anything. Nobody we can realistically bring into the Hulman Center is going to bring vast excitement to the area. Almost all of our "big games" in TH from here on out will be against good conference opponents if we're also having a decent season.
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Your original post was too long.
I was waiting for someone else to summarizes it
Sorry
DyedBlue
The All-MVC Level
I concur with WestBadenBoy. I give a donation, pay a seat fee and buy season tickets to both MBB and WBB. I prefer not to see Hanover unless I go to a game at RHIT or SMWC.
Mid-Major AD's should shut out the Power 4 from their schedules and concentrate on teams in the 50-200 in the rankings. Force the P4 only to play each other or very low major foes. I bet their fans would love a non-conference of 3 reputable foes and 8 home games versus teams from the 250+ range in the rankings. Lots of delusional wins by big margins.
By most metrics, the best Mid-Majors would have improved SOS while the mediocre P4's would see a big drop in SOS. Perhaps that would move the needle. If one can contract for no payment Mid-Major Home & Home series, then the responsibility is solely on the home team to create attendance & enthusiasm to replace any lost revenue by shutting out the P4 folks. That seems eminently fair to me.
Personally, I would prefer to see something like a 4 or 6-year home-and-home against a series of reputable mid-majors from across the country. I do think travel to the East and West coasts would be an attractive feature to a schedule and would help with recruiting visibility for all schools. I would much prefer H&H and a chance to see some WCC or Big West or IVY or A10 teams than Eureka College . The Ivy League has some quality teams and depth that will only improve in this era of NIL-purchased players. I think now is the time to get them on an H&H contract. Might not bring in a bigger crowd, but I do like the concept of rubbing elbows with those folks.
And there would still be the MTE's existing outside of the above scheduling parameters.
Mid-Major AD's should shut out the Power 4 from their schedules and concentrate on teams in the 50-200 in the rankings. Force the P4 only to play each other or very low major foes. I bet their fans would love a non-conference of 3 reputable foes and 8 home games versus teams from the 250+ range in the rankings. Lots of delusional wins by big margins.
By most metrics, the best Mid-Majors would have improved SOS while the mediocre P4's would see a big drop in SOS. Perhaps that would move the needle. If one can contract for no payment Mid-Major Home & Home series, then the responsibility is solely on the home team to create attendance & enthusiasm to replace any lost revenue by shutting out the P4 folks. That seems eminently fair to me.
Personally, I would prefer to see something like a 4 or 6-year home-and-home against a series of reputable mid-majors from across the country. I do think travel to the East and West coasts would be an attractive feature to a schedule and would help with recruiting visibility for all schools. I would much prefer H&H and a chance to see some WCC or Big West or IVY or A10 teams than Eureka College . The Ivy League has some quality teams and depth that will only improve in this era of NIL-purchased players. I think now is the time to get them on an H&H contract. Might not bring in a bigger crowd, but I do like the concept of rubbing elbows with those folks.
And there would still be the MTE's existing outside of the above scheduling parameters.
Not a single person here has suggested that moves the needle or is what we should be doing. So that’s awesome that you came up with that “example” on your own… In the chance that I missed someone suggesting that among this exhausting thread then you can ahead and tag them and tell them they don’t get it either. No one here is suggesting buy games vs those teams you mentioned.
The MVC is absolutely a one bid league as things stand today - how is that point debatable at this point? You are making a very long post to say what exactly? You act like that is something we are celebrating over here - a proud statement. It’s ridiculous that it’s come to this being a one bid league, absolutely.
Schedule a better non conference schedule, take matters into your own hands and defy the tournament metrics that are set against us to rig the system entirely? I don’t know what you want Indiana State to do?
Also, get off your high horse… Plenty of people around here willing to give in-depth responses to about anything under the sun. Just because you don’t agree with the logic doesn’t mean it lacks depth. Relax.
Go look at the 2023 schedule and let me know what Indiana State could have done differently from a scheduling perspective - because I can’t find it. Take away @ Alabama and @ Michigan State they needed to not only run the non conference table which they did. They needed to lose no more than 2 conference games. We went 17-3 had we not got beat at home in a slip up with an injured roster we go 18-3 and likely make the tournament. The entire season came down to winning one game on the road at Michigan State or at Alabama.
So to make the bid a not one big league at Indiana State you need to:
- Run the table in the non-conference against all no p5’s
- Need to play in a good but not great non conference tournament and win all games.
- Need to play one or two ranked P5’s on the road and win one of the two games.
- Need to lose less than 3 games during the conference season.
- Not win the regular season title because that doesn’t mean shit and that is an absolute shame.
I’m not here to listen to this nonsense… The greatest season Indiana State has had since Larry Bird - a literal must see TV team from Alabama to Michigan State to the MVC Tournament title game. They met all the metrics and the eye test. But go ahead.
That’s probably not enough for you… Here look at Drake schedule last year a little different approach but not much. https://godrakebulldogs.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2024-25
A home win vs FGC is okay I guess not sure where they ended up in the NET last year? Drake ends up in a pretty decent MET with a lot of average P5’s and they run the table. They lose 3 conference games (sound familiar) and honestly they needed a win in STL or some help around the bubble to get in. It doesn’t matter - the outcome is always the same. Anything short of making the Championship game and they are out.
In other words… Good luck! It’s a stacked deck. If that lacks substance for you then I can’t help you. Let’s go to this year just for funzies!
You win @ Duke. Run the table in the non-conference and say we lose 3 conference games (depending on what 3) we are in the same spot as 2023 and the same spot as Drake last year - likely on the outside looking in. The scheduling margin is much more thin than you would like to believe. The season hinges on a P5 road win against a top 10 team and you to be essentially perfect the rest of the way with a margin of no more than 3 losses vs anyone else.
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In light of school being back in session a very elementary fix for you…
“ISU had better bust its butt and start thinking like many of you. Do everything it can to boost every aspect of its program — and getting the best schedule it can is probably near the top of the list. Abolishing football is a great first step in the right direction.”
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We were discussing to some degree which schools bring in fans to the HC. Okay fine, Lindenwood vs UMSL; SIUE vs McKendree; Green Bay vs Northern Michigan. How many people in Terre Haute know what division those schools are and how many of them do you think are going to be breaking down the doors of the Hulman Center to watch us play them in November and December? When it comes to buy games those are the realistic options, and I don't see the need to pay double or more for the "D1" option, because there's just not that much difference between a low major school and a D2 school at this point. We're not getting an at-large and the only thing that matters is finishing in the top 5 (as of 26-27) of the MVC at the end of the year so we avoid Thursday for a shot at the elusive 1 bid.
I think we should still schedule as competitvely as we can. Fans want to see good games. Beating up Eureka, St Louis Pharmacy, and Chicago State will not get fans in seats year in and year out.
Ball State, SEMO, SIUE type of schools we should be scheduling annually with P4 buy games and home/homes.
Are we a 1 bid league? Yeah, and scheduling a dogshit noncon is actively going the wrong way in fixing that.
Ball State, SEMO, SIUE type of schools we should be scheduling annually with P4 buy games and home/homes.
Are we a 1 bid league? Yeah, and scheduling a dogshit noncon is actively going the wrong way in fixing that.
No one is advocating for that… But scheduling a gauntlet makes no sense either.
Know what else makes no sense? Having this conversation while we pour valuable resources for the last 15 years into a do nothing football program. In a situation where we could actually have the funds to put together a legitimate schedule…
Let’s not let that get lost in translation as you see schools more serious about basketball than Indiana State try and figure out this era of college athletics.
How many people in TH know what division these schools are in? You are both hilarious and incompetent… This is not a brag far from it but most people in TH don’t bother concerning themselves with those schools because most are IU, PU, ND, Ball State, Illinois or Butler fans. To be fair. Indiana State hasn’t taken basketball serious enough for most people to even concern themselves with those schools.
I’d say for the most what fans we have are pretty well educated on what is what. At the end of the day and it’s been said, Indiana State fans are not “breaking down the doors” as you say unless we are playing a P5 at home (which isn’t happening) or we put together an incredible non-conference / conference record.
You guys talk about this like we don’t have precedence to reflect back on? It makes no sense to keep having these conversations.