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My God ............Read posts with comprehension and logic
Dyed Blue -- couple good points
Indy Tree -- appreciate you picking up the challenge but you missed the overall point almost completely.
Take my point 5 ---- NO ONE suggested loading up with 10 -12 Big 10, Big East , SEC etc schools -- where the hell did you get that
idea ??? In fact I gave what is a pretty much perfect schedule with a rival game, four games vs legitimate mid major schools like
from the MAC (Play Kent State and Central Michigan at home -- the next year you play those schools at their place. That first year
you play at Bowling Green and Akron -- the next year they come to Hulman Center. NO money exchanged by any of the schools.
Probably 20 -- 30 teams in the general midwest would fit the bill -- many more if you widen the area just a bit. Toss in a couple "money" games on the road, plus couple home games against vs "cupcakes" from lower level. Bingo !
Sycamore State of Mind -- do you even understand what my main point was ??? I don't think so -- and this applies to several others.
MVC -- only one bid ---- no at-larges GOT IT
I was replying, correctly, to the numerous saying it does not matter what we do in the pre-conference.
Is the ONLY criteria whether or not we get into March Madness ??? That's a biggie I agree.
But I'm looking at how do we build a program -- not just a bid. And if ISU does what many of you suggest -- play Ball State and a bunch of unheard of, low level nobodies it will be a disaster.
Lastly ---- do some of you REALLY think that playing an excellent Alabama team and an memorable game at Michigan State -- both essentially without Robbie -- leading midway in the second half by about 8 pts vs MSU -- those games did not greatly enhance our team for the rest of the season ....especially in the NIT...........I don't know to tell you
 

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2 seasons ago, I never once overheard a conversation, while standing in a long line to enter Hulman Center, where Sycamore fans were excited about the quality of opponent, or disappointed by the lack of quality opponent.

However, overheard many conversations about the winning streak, playing on national television, winning conference, and most of all, the excellent & exciting players & team.

Many things more important to the casual band wagon Sycamore fan than quality of opponent, in most non P4 circumstances.

Agree with SSOM & others: until ISU goes 'All In' with basketball, then I don't care too much about the schedule. (But I do enjoy it as an off-season debate).
 
Two years you weren't standing in a long line early in the season
Secondly you did begin to stand in longer and longer lines as fans had watched a program build into an exciting style of play -- that already beaten a couple of MVC teams and played a top level Alabama team (without Robbie) eye to eye the entire. Then goes to Michigan State and wows 15,000 Spartan fans --- scared the Hell out of most --- and showed we could play with anybody.
No national TV games that season against any of those low level teams we played pre-conference
Hated now by many but with a unique coach .......and wonder if the prospect of playing Crimson Tide & Spartans helped bring in couple those players ....or keep some from leaving
AGAIN ----- I'm talking about how we build a winning program --- brings in good players, puts lots of fans in the seats for the atmosphere and the $$$$$, gets some media attention within Indiana and the nation (hello Indy Star).
We're not getting in March Madness every year no matter what. But it would be nice to be a top MVC team year in -- year out. Going to
St Louis every year with a solid chance to win it
As I said in my first post, that won't happen if we take the road suggested by several here who say the hell with everything
***** Very sad to say this. But yes football should be dropped. FCS football may crumble soon anyway ****
 
Westbadenboy said:
Two years you weren't standing in a long line early in the season
Secondly you did begin to stand in longer and longer lines as fans had watched a program build into an exciting style of play -- that already beaten a couple of MVC teams and played a top level Alabama team (without Robbie) eye to eye the entire. Then goes to Michigan State and wows 15,000 Spartan fans --- scared the Hell out of most --- and showed we could play with anybody.
No national TV games that season against any of those low level teams we played pre-conference
Hated now by many but with a unique coach .......and wonder if the prospect of playing Crimson Tide & Spartans helped bring in couple those players ....or keep some from leaving
AGAIN ----- I'm talking about how we build a winning program --- brings in good players, puts lots of fans in the seats for the atmosphere and the $$$$$, gets some media attention within Indiana and the nation (hello Indy Star).
We're not getting in March Madness every year no matter what. But it would be nice to be a top MVC team year in -- year out. Going to
St Louis every year with a solid chance to win it
As I said in my first post, that won't happen if we take the road suggested by several here who say the hell with everything
***** Very sad to say this. But yes football should be dropped. FCS football may crumble soon anyway ****
Click to expand...
And with that winning team, we also had a football team. Hmmm?
 
Westbadenboy said:
Two years you weren't standing in a long line early in the season
Secondly you did begin to stand in longer and longer lines as fans had watched a program build into an exciting style of play -- that already beaten a couple of MVC teams and played a top level Alabama team (without Robbie) eye to eye the entire. Then goes to Michigan State and wows 15,000 Spartan fans --- scared the Hell out of most --- and showed we could play with anybody.
No national TV games that season against any of those low level teams we played pre-conference
Hated now by many but with a unique coach .......and wonder if the prospect of playing Crimson Tide & Spartans helped bring in couple those players ....or keep some from leaving
AGAIN ----- I'm talking about how we build a winning program --- brings in good players, puts lots of fans in the seats for the atmosphere and the $$$$$, gets some media attention within Indiana and the nation (hello Indy Star).
We're not getting in March Madness every year no matter what. But it would be nice to be a top MVC team year in -- year out. Going to
St Louis every year with a solid chance to win it
As I said in my first post, that won't happen if we take the road suggested by several here who say the hell with everything
***** Very sad to say this. But yes football should be dropped. FCS football may crumble soon anyway ****
Click to expand...
Agree with your last statement. In general, I appreciate your sentiment about developing a more interesting non-con.

1)NCaa enforced schedule mandates
2) Many mid-major programs scheduling home/home series.
3) ISU 🏀 significantly increasing its budget.

3 ways SP have argued could increase non-con strength of schedule. #3 probably most realistic.

HCMG talks regularly of schedule difficulties, & that he wants to give the home fans competitive games. I'm sure he provides a good effort towards it.
 
RunSyc said:
1)NCaa enforced schedule mandates
Click to expand...
This has been one of my biggest talking points the last few years. The ONLY schedule mandates that needs to happen is “teams must play 3 true road non-con games for at-large eligibility”.

- it would get rid of the stupid neutral site games as of late.
- it would force P5s to go on the road and force some of them to come to MM facilities. (That’s why it’ll never happen)
- it would give MMs home games without having to pay out of pocket
- it would eliminate majority of these non-D1 games that all these teams are stuck with.

The average non-con is 11 games. That gives you 3 road games, 2-3 games in an MTE, and leaves you with 5 or 6 home games. That is a completely fair system, which is why the P5 would never do it.
 

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Westbadenboy said:
In fact I gave what is a pretty much perfect schedule with a rival game, four games vs legitimate mid major schools like
from the MAC (Play Kent State and Central Michigan at home -- the next year you play those schools at their place. That first year
you play at Bowling Green and Akron -- the next year they come to Hulman Center. NO money exchanged by any of the schools.
Probably 20 -- 30 teams in the general midwest would fit the bill -- many more if you widen the area just a bit. Toss in a couple "money" games on the road, plus couple home games against vs "cupcakes" from lower level. Bingo !
Click to expand...
It's great that you gave the "perfect" non-con schedule. I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't understand how difficult it is to schedule. It's not as easy as "NO money exchanged," or just picking up the phone to play someone. So us "contributing to our own demise" doesn't really work. Do you actually think HCMG doesn't want H&H's with A-10, CUSA, American, MWC, etc. conferences? Come on now.

Also, you don't have to be so angry lol...It's just pre-season discussion anyways.
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
How many people in TH know what division these schools are in? You are both hilarious and incompetent… This is not a brag far from it but most people in TH don’t bother concerning themselves with those schools because most are IU, PU, ND, Ball State, Illinois or Butler fans. To be fair. Indiana State hasn’t taken basketball serious enough for most people to even concern themselves with those schools.

I’d say for the most what fans we have are pretty well educated on what is what. At the end of the day and it’s been said, Indiana State fans are not “breaking down the doors” as you say unless we are playing a P5 at home (which isn’t happening) or we put together an incredible non-conference / conference record.

You guys talk about this like we don’t have precedence to reflect back on? It makes no sense to keep having these conversations.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm sure the 25-50 fans that read this board know which schools are D1 and which ones aren't, but I seriously doubt that a majority of the 200,000 people in the TH MSA that ISU would like to try to attract to a game do. All they care about is if we win or not; or what's going on in the Big 10. Paying double to play low majors instead of non-D1s is just stupid at the end of the day. Let Drake blow their money on SIUE when they could've just paid Upper Iowa a fraction of that to come to town. ISU doesn't need to follow suit.
 
96
You just made my point -- Drake example is exactly who we should follow. Whose had the most solid program over the past several years ?
Drake
Outside of us couple years ago had any chance at all of an at-large bid ?
Drake
96 --- thanks for your assistance
********
Darth
Not angry because people disagree ---- angry because they don't read carefully and go off saying I advocated things I obviously never advocated.
And yes, until the idiots in mid majors realize they have to organize these types "home & home" series -- not just every so often, but in an organized and ongoing basis. They are not there yet -- maybe never. But if they know what's best, they better figure it out.
********
And last time, its simple: those arguing we should totally forget trying to have a good pre-MVC schedule, and just play low level opponents are wrong -- dead wrong.
My last post on this subject ..........
Thanks and good night
 
I decided to ask ChatGPT the same questions we debate about.
Why MVC teams are avoided?
Reason: High Risk Low reward, MVC teams are good, Road game politics, Mid-major fear, and style mismatch.
Impact: A loss hurts but a win doesn't help, They can pull upsets, Power schools avoid away games, don't want to boost bubble resume which takes a spot away, and MVC games are physical and unpredictable.

What can MVC teams do to fix or get around it?
1. Dominate MTE's & Neutral site Tournaments including mid-tier events
2. Schedule High Level Mid majors (Target A10, MWC, MAC, WCC, CUSA)
3. Offer Smart Scheduling Deals (2 or 1s or Neutral) Basiclaly for us try to have a team play us in Indy, Chicago, St Louis as neutral game
4. Build Schedule Alliances - MVC vs A-10 challenge as an example
5. Focus on NET driven schedule (Avoid low NET teams, Play road and neutral games, Run up the score, and keep tempo and offensive efficiency strong)
6. Lobby for Selection Committee Awareness (MVC leadership needs to aggressively promote teams resume, show that avoid MVC teams is not a poor performance problem but systemic. Former MVC coaches could advocate nationally.

Long term moves:
Add smart expansion teams with basketball and media reach. (UIC, Belmont, and Murray were smart moves) - Who will we add for next expansion
Invest in facilities and coaching salaries
Partner with Better TV and streaming deals beyond ESPN+ - This is going to have to happen anyway because ESPN+ is going way when the contract ends especially with ESPN going to their new app.


What's an ideal non-conference schedule for Indiana State?
Earning an at-large bid
Maximize NET rankings
Gain National respect
Avoid "bad" games that hurt resume (Quad 4)
Getting multiple Quad 1 or Quad 2 wins

It gave me an mock schedule:
Virginia (MTE)
VCU (MTE)
FAU (MTE)
Mississippi State (Away)
Northwestern (Away)
Dayton (Home)
Toledo (Neutral/Home)
Vermont (Away)
Western Illinois (Home)
NKU (Home)
Wright State (Home)
D2 0r NAIA (Home)
UNC Wilmington (Away/Neutral)

Quad 1 - 3-5
Quad 2 - 3-5
Quad 3 - 3-4
Quad 4 - 0 maybe 1 non D1

Doesn't it feel like NCAA is always moving the goal post?
Yes because their criteria is not consistent and often shifts.

2024 Indiana State -29 Net - Lack of Q1 Wins
2022 Texas A&M -42 Left out despite beating multiple top 2 teams
2019 NC State - 33 Left out for weak SOS but had better NET than several who got in

What could fix all this?
More transparency
Lock in consistent and weighted criteria (NET, metrics, etc)
Committee Diversity - more mid major voices and not just Power 5 AD's - We shit the bed here
Penalize P5 teams that refuse to play road games or avoid strong mid-majors - NCAA would have to enforce with no vote lol
 
Westbadenboy said:
96
You just made my point -- Drake example is exactly who we should follow. Whose had the most solid program over the past several years ?
Drake
Outside of us couple years ago had any chance at all of an at-large bid ?
Drake
96 --- thanks for your assistance
********
Click to expand...

If anything Drake followed our example of hiring a very successful D2 coach that had done nothing but win. With Devries they followed the Creighton method of hiring a coach with a very talented kid (whether that was knowingly or unknowingly, idk).

I will say that they made the football playoffs last season, so that's an example I'd like see us follow sometime in the near future.
 

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Bobbyk60 said:
And with that winning team, we also had a football team. Hmmm?
Click to expand...
GTFOoH -- you expect us to believe a 1-10 the football team played a role in a winning basketball season, program??

What the hell do you smoke in Texas?
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
Yes I'm sure the 25-50 fans that read this board know which schools are D1 and which ones aren't, but I seriously doubt that a majority of the 200,000 people in the TH MSA that ISU would like to try to attract to a game do. All they care about is if we win or not; or what's going on in the Big 10. Paying double to play low majors instead of non-D1s is just stupid at the end of the day. Let Drake blow their money on SIUE when they could've just paid Upper Iowa a fraction of that to come to town. ISU doesn't need to follow suit.
Click to expand...

200K in Terre Haute MSA? Quit huffing diesel -- it's ~170K at best
 
4Q_iu said:
200K in Terre Haute MSA? Quit huffing diesel -- it's ~170K at best
Click to expand...
They don't consider Parke, Edgar, and Clark counties as part of the TH MSA even though quite a few people from all of those counties work in Terre Haute and live within 30 minutes of the city. Count those bordering counties and the TH area has 200k.
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
They don't consider Parke, Edgar, and Clark counties as part of the TH MSA even though quite a few people from all of those counties work in Terre Haute and live within 30 minutes of the city. Count those bordering counties and the TH area has 200k.
Click to expand...

Sounds like more alternative facts

Just because you don't like, agree with the definition; doesn't mean you get to redefine it.
 

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