A few thoughts on President Curtis

BankShot · Feb 8, 2018

Bally #50 said:
Fiji Bill 72 said:

I know that Bankshot was too so that's not a perfect theory however. Thanks again. I'm joining you in hiatus.

Click to expand...

What was your college major, Bob? Too bad that you didn't accompany me to the 3-day 1980 National Council for the Social Studies Convention (NCSS) in Minneapolis, MN, where the theme was "3R's for the 80's -'Reading, 'Riting & REASONING." You might've learned a few things.

niklz62 · Feb 8, 2018

Im not sure I understand what "not going down that road again" means here. Its ok to just "not go down that road again"

BankShot · Feb 8, 2018

Guess it depends on what road map you're using...

Sycamorefan96 · Feb 8, 2018

Honestly if we never build a new stadium I won't be that disappointed. The only thing I'd be disappointed with is if we ever dropped football.

For the record I am not at all against a new stadium. I think it would be neat to have a stadium that is on campus and that is comparable to other Missouri Valley stadiums in quality. I'm glad that the leadership at ISU also feels the same way. The best thing about a new stadium would be that it would mean football is here to stay.

Sycamorefan96 · Feb 8, 2018

On another note if you (not directed at any individual person on here) don't like football then don't watch it or support it. I don't like women's basketball, track, cross country, volleyball, softball, and a lot of our other sports, and guess who doesn't waste his time or money following those sports? This guy. If you think FCS football is irrelevant and you just like men's basketball then just watch basketball. No one is forcing you to care about football.

Jason Svoboda · Feb 8, 2018

Sycamorefan96 said:
On another note if you (not directed at any individual person on here) don't like football then don't watch it or support it. I don't like women's basketball, track, cross country, volleyball, softball, and a lot of our other sports, and guess who doesn't waste his time or money following those sports? This guy. If you think FCS football is irrelevant and you just like men's basketball then just watch basketball. No one is forcing you to care about football.

The problem with this is football is a money suck, even at the FCS, level so unlike the other sports you mentioned, football is a financial drain on the athletic program as a whole. It would be different if we had a support level akin to the FCS powers like NDSU or UNI where attendance and donations would not only help raise football but other programs as well. Just throwing that out there as I assume that is the issue most have with football.

SycamoreStateofMind · Feb 8, 2018

Sycamorefan96 said:
On another note if you (not directed at any individual person on here) don't like football then don't watch it or support it. I don't like women's basketball, track, cross country, volleyball, softball, and a lot of our other sports, and guess who doesn't waste his time or money following those sports? This guy. If you think FCS football is irrelevant and you just like men's basketball then just watch basketball. No one is forcing you to care about football.

Naaa I care too much about football. I’m more upset with the University than I am the football program. I will keep buying my 3 season tickets.

But good message - you know for anyone who doesn’t care. But that won’t rally the troops - too many people just don’t care especially football alumni at large (not all). Catch my drift, that message must hit close to home. If that massive alumni base would step up to the plate we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

sycamore tuff · Feb 9, 2018

SycamoreStateofMind said:
DROP FOOTBALL...

NEVER Track - it's our best program.

The lack of vision and commitment applies to the football program at Indiana State. You build an on campus track and field facility and have the opportunity with prime real-estate to build a multi-use facility but they missed the boat, that ship has now sailed. We're left with what? Watch this.

Brand new lighting this past off season at Memorial Stadium - the current track has NO lighting.

A new field this off season - that very same field could have been put inside the current track.

It should also be noted that the current track also doesn't have much in the way of permanent seating. So you could have taken the same amount of investment that we made in putting band-aids on Memorial Stadium and put that toward a multi-use on campus facility. That would have shown a different level of commitment and forward thinking. But they didn't do that and now the new President goes "oh look at that space and what we could do with it"... It wasn't brain surgery. I loved her observation - I want us to have stand alone facilities just like the rest of you. It's not feasible - look how long it took us to finally renovate the HC and how hard we had to work for those dollars.

I was just having a little fun with you. I knew you meant football.

Sycamorefan96 · Feb 9, 2018

I think people should be happy that we're actually spending the appropriate amount on football. Before Miles came along we were spending like a Pioneer League school and we weren't recruiting out of the state of Indiana I believe. After we started spending more like a MVFC school would and opened up recruiting we had a winning season 3 years later. Also 6 of the past 8 seasons we've had competitive football teams. I know last year sucked, but the point remains that we have been doing better at football ever since we've actually supported it financially like we should.

bent20 · Feb 9, 2018

Sycamorefan96 said:
I think people should be happy that we're actually spending the appropriate amount on football. Before Miles came along we were spending like a Pioneer League school and we weren't recruiting out of the state of Indiana I believe. After we started spending more like a MVFC school would and opened up recruiting we had a winning season 3 years later. Also 6 of the past 8 seasons we've had competitive football teams. I know last year sucked, but the point remains that we have been doing better at football ever since we've actually supported it financially like we should.

Better maybe, but not nearly good enough. I appreciate you're looking at things from the glass half full perspective. But I wouldn't call a 4-7 season competitive. We've had one winning season in the last five years. We are 17-42 over that time. Take away the 0-11 and 1-11 seasons and the record is 16-20 (8-6, 4-7,4-7). One season over .500 and that was four years ago. That's not a good return on the additional investment. We're not seeing the additional money pay off. That's why I didn't think any of us should tolerate what happened last year. That's why I would hope our AD has sent a very clear signal to this coaching staff that you have the resources, you have the money previous coaches didn't have. Your performance so far is not satisfactory and another 0-11 or 1-10 season will result in your firing. If this team is still struggling to finish above .500 and failing to contend for a playoff spot late in the season by 2019, then is the money worth it?

SycamoreStateofMind · Feb 9, 2018

sycamore tuff said:
I was just having a little fun with you. I knew you meant football.

I figured so... I've been off lately. Ugh.

Maybe a win tomorrow will help get us all back on track!

SycamoreStateofMind · Feb 9, 2018

bent20 said:
Better maybe, but not nearly good enough. I appreciate you're looking at things from the glass half full perspective. But I wouldn't call a 4-7 season competitive. We've had one winning season in the last five years. We are 17-42 over that time. Take away the 0-11 and 1-11 seasons and the record is 16-20 (8-6, 4-7,4-7). One season over .500 and that was four years ago. That's not a good return on the additional investment. We're not seeing the additional money pay off. That's why I didn't think any of us should tolerate what happened last year. That's why I would hope our AD has sent a very clear signal to this coaching staff that you have the resources, you have the money previous coaches didn't have. Your performance so far is not satisfactory and another 0-11 or 1-10 season will result in your firing. If this team is still struggling to finish above .500 and failing to contend for a playoff spot late in the season by 2019, then is the money worth it?

I agree but you gotta give the guy a little time - I mean it's only fair...

Bob Evans · Feb 9, 2018

I just knew they were just trying to spin you up, SSOM.

Anyway, in just about any sport, I don't think it's fair to a coach to let them go until they have had a chance to show what they can do with their own players, which takes 4-5 years (unless they have done something criminal or really ran an already good program into the ditch). If we are going to kill a sport, it should be done when we are also ready to get rid of the coach.

I also worry that President Curtis is reading this conversation's flow and saying to herself, "I must keep my distance from these crazy people."

niklz62 · Feb 9, 2018

at this point, we could be the 20th best team in the country, never lose to a team ranked lower (final rankings) lose a $500k money game and end up 5-6.

SycamoreStateofMind · Feb 9, 2018

Bob Evans said:
I just knew they were just trying to spin you up, SSOM.

Anyway, in just about any sport, I don't think it's fair to a coach to let them go until they have had a chance to show what they can do with their own players, which takes 4-5 years (unless they have done something criminal or really ran an already good program into the ditch). If we are going to kill a sport, it should be done when we are also ready to get rid of the coach.

I also worry that President Curtis is reading this conversation's flow and saying to herself, "I must keep my distance from these crazy people."

It worked - usually doesn’t take much.

Naaa I don’t think she would think that - expressed on a website everyone can look a little crazy at times. Passionate is what I prefer to call it - we got a lot of people here who passionately care about the Sycamores...

bent20 · Feb 9, 2018

Bob Evans said:
Anyway, in just about any sport, I don't think it's fair to a coach to let them go until they have had a chance to show what they can do with their own players, which takes 4-5 years (unless they have done something criminal or really ran an already good program into the ditch).

We can't wait 4 to 5 years. Our last two coaches have left after their fourth and fifth years. I'm even hesitant to assume year three will get all that much better if you go winless, or only win one game, in year two. If we get to 3-8 or 4-7 this year, then all of this is a moot point. I'm hopeful, just not overly optimistic. It's hard to be with ISU sports.

bent20 · Feb 9, 2018

niklz62 said:
at this point, we could be the 20th best team in the country, never lose to a team ranked lower (final rankings) lose a $500k money game and end up 5-6.

That's where we were with Trent Miles and we've regressed. 4-7, 4-7, 0-11. You get to 5-6 and are ranked and you feel good, not because that's good enough, but because it gives you hope next year ye'll get over the hump and maybe stay there a while. 4-7 and 5-6 is like 15-16 in basketball. Yeah, it's OK, it's better relative to how shitty we've been in many other years, but if that's the best we can ever do (with an occasional surprise tournament run in either sport maybe once a decade) that's pretty dismal.

4Q_iu · Feb 9, 2018

bent20 said:
We can't wait 4 to 5 years. Our last two coaches have left after their fourth and fifth years. I'm even hesitant to assume year three will get all that much better if you go winless, or only win one game, in year two. If we get to 3-8 or 4-7 this year, then all of this is a moot point. I'm hopeful, just not overly optimistic. It's hard to be with ISU sports.

the last two coaches left for 'greener pastures,' in general, that's LIFE at the FCS level.

the MVFC
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oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Illinois St - Spack - 10th year; 10th yr overall

Indiana St - Mallory - 2nd year; 2nd yr overall

Missouri St - Steckel - 3rd year; 3rd yr overall

No Dakota St - Klieman - 5th year; 6th yr overall

No Iowa - Farley - 18th year; 18th yr overall

So Dakota - Nielson - 3rd year; 26th yr overall

So Dakota St - Stiegelmeier - 21st year; 21st yr overall

So Ill - Hill - entering 3rd year; 3rd yr overall

We Ill - Elliott - entering 1st year; 1st yr overall

Y$U - Pelini - entering 4th year; 12 yr overall

The Top Ten Longest-Tenured FCS Coaches; last year there were 124 FCS programs

Jimmye Laycock (William & Mary), 38th season – 243-180-2 record

Mike Ayers (Wofford), 30th season – 197-136-1 at Wofford; 208-157-2 overall

Jim Parady (Marist), 26th season – 129-132-1

Kevin Callahan (Monmouth), 25th season – 135-115

Tim Murphy (Harvard), 24th season – 163-66 at Harvard; 195-111-1 overall

John Stiegelmeier (South Dakota State), 21st season – 137-94

Phil Estes (Brown), 20th season – 112-77

Jerome Souers (Northern Arizona), 20th season – 112-103

Sean McDonnell (New Hampshire), 19th season – 141-83

Buddy Teevens (Dartmouth), 18th season – 79-89-2 at Dartmouth; 113-166-2 overall

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/longest-tenured-fcs-coaches-are-impactful-052417

niklz62 · Feb 9, 2018

bent20 said:
We can't wait 4 to 5 years. Our last two coaches have left after their fourth and fifth years. I'm even hesitant to assume year three will get all that much better if you go winless, or only win one game, in year two. If we get to 3-8 or 4-7 this year, then all of this is a moot point. I'm hopeful, just not overly optimistic. It's hard to be with ISU sports.

I dont think we will know how good he is [HC at a school] for 4-5 years. We may never know. We could win this year or next year and we will only know how well he fills in the holes that were left (not blaming Sanford here just saying we do know that the switch hasnt been smooth). I think Miles was very good at getting some kids and he was able to tell some of them they would be starting in their first couple years, he wasnt here long enough to know if he could sustain a program. At some point, to have a consistent playoff contender we are going to have to convince high level kids to come in and watch for a few years. Maybe we will never have a coach that long, im stunned Kleiman has stayed at NDSU this long, Hell, Western IL just lost their HC to Arizona to be a receivers coach.

A good example of what i mean is Dino Babers' career. He gets to EIU, 2 years with a guy he didnt recruit who just signed a $137M NFL deal, goes to Bowling Green who was on the rise behind a HC that left and has turned Wake Forest around. Takes a star QB and has 2 good seasons....still having not recruited the upperclassmen. Now he gets to down trending Syracuse for big money and has gone 4-8 for 2 seasons. Is he any good? well he is good at getting progressively better paying jobs but he hasnt shown that he can sustain a program.

Its possible that Miles' lack of success at Georgia St could keep Mallory here additional years. My hope is that we can make Mallory rich somewhere else then keep doing that with great coaches after him.

Jason Svoboda · Feb 9, 2018

niklz62 said:
Its possible that Miles' lack of success at Georgia St could keep Mallory here additional years. My hope is that we can make Mallory rich somewhere else then keep doing that with great coaches after him.

Honestly, I don't.

I think the for the long term viability of the program, you need someone that wins just over .500 and has the occasional magic season. Personally, I'm resigned to the fact that it may be the program's ceiling. Going 5-6, 6-5 and then dropping a 9 win season in every 3rd year or being 7-4 but getting bounced in the first/second round of the playoffs. Do that for a decade and I think you may have enough of a base.

The constant turnover has to stop.

A few thoughts on President Curtis

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