[December 7, 2024] Indiana State (5-4) at Missouri State (5-3)

[Bluethunder]

Really think Graves is a good "Xs and Os" coach. He is doing a good job of getting guys in position and putting them in successful positions. Daughtry NOT running a high post hub and running a Pick N Roll from that position is a good indication of that. He is learning too, and I think he is still figuring out late game management, subbing, line-ups, etc. but overall his adjustments and going to player strengths has been pretty darn good. To be 6-4 at this point is a nice surprise after the first game. There are a lot of winnable MVC games this season, just gotta pull them out like last night and we will have a campaign we can be proud of at the end of it

Not sure I’m willing to go here yet, but I will say the staff has done a very nice job of keeping the team focused and improving

Things could have gone south real quick after the SIU game, instead the team has played some of its best basketball of the season since that game.

Just keep chopping wood

 

[BlueBleeder]

In case Jaden reads this....I have to give JD some credit and applause for that second half performance last night. I was riding his ass hard in the first half and being pretty asshole-ish about it, but he responded in a huge way. I think that is where we are seeing his biggest growth is moving past a mistake. Last year, or even early this year, he would let a mistake affect his play. He kept playing hard last night and gave us the lift we needed to pick up a big road win. So JD, here's to you and the awesome response to some lackluster finishing early.....well done!

 

[sycamore_21]

MSU always plays mucky ass bball. No wonder they don’t have fans

 

[sycamorebacker]

I couldn’t watch game yesterday so re-watching now. Man I’ve never watched a player where I am so unsure if they will make a layup as Jaden Daughtry. It’s insane. Sounds like his second half is much. Can’t get worse

Did you see Gonzaga/UK?

 

[sycamore_21]

Did you see Gonzaga/UK?

Haha no saw it was a close game. Had a party yesterday so no CBB viewing for me

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Did you see Gonzaga/UK?

I didn't watch it, but I have noticed with the hoops mutation into Golden State Warriors basketball, finishing at the rim in general has really decayed. I was lifting the other night and there were a couple high major games on and in the span of like 60-90 seconds, I saw both sides miss multiple shots around the rim on both screens. Guys are spending so much time on long distance shooting drills that they're not putting in ample work around the rim.

Someone needs to restart the Pete Newall Big Man Camp. I think his last one was in the early 2010s and I don't think there is any coincidence we've seen a lack of dominant posts. I think even with today's different game, a guy with dominant post skills could be invaluable.

 

[sycamorebacker]

Haha no saw it was a close game. Had a party yesterday so no CBB viewing for me

You wouldn't believe how many bunnies they missed and some were not close.

 

[DyedBlue]

In the MSU game, the four freshmen combined for 67 minutes of playing time which, obviously, is a remarkable contrast to the 2023-24 season. They combined to go 9/16 from the field while delivering 6 assists, 5 turnovers and 8 of the teams 31 rebounds.

 

[4Q_iu]

I didn't watch it, but I have noticed with the hoops mutation into Golden State Warriors basketball, finishing at the rim in general has really decayed. I was lifting the other night and there were a couple high major games on and in the span of like 60-90 seconds, I saw both sides miss multiple shots around the rim on both screens. Guys are spending so much time on long distance shooting drills that they're not putting in ample work around the rim.

Someone needs to restart the Pete Newall Big Man Camp. I think his last one was in the early 2010s and I don't think there is any coincidence we've seen a lack of dominant posts. I think even with today's different game, a guy with dominant post skills could be invaluable.

AI-driven Google claims the final camp was 2011... Newell passed in 2008, hard to run Newell's camp without him

Kaufmann-Renn had some good footwork today - course, he needed every step to get his

 

[Jason Svoboda]

AI-driven Google claims the final camp was 2011... Newell passed in 2008, hard to run Newell's camp without him

Kaufmann-Renn had some good footwork today - course, he needed every step to get his

I don't think he invented post moves, just had a camp dedicated to the development of big men and it was considered the premiere camp so everyone helped out. Like I said, someone needs to pick up the torch.

 

[4Q_iu]

I don't think he invented post moves, just had a camp dedicated to the development of big men and it was considered the premiere camp so everyone helped out. Like I said, someone needs to pick up the torch.

Newell was known for many things but I don't think anyone credits him with inventing footwork for Bigs...

Maybe Newell saw some of George Mikan's foot work on newsreels before the cartoons at a Saturday matinee

Agree -- What are McHale and Hakeem doing now days?

 

[TreeTop]

Has LeGree solidified himself into the rotation? All signs point to yes.
Will we see Vorst back on the court tonight? Yes sir.
Will we see Gray back on the court tonight? No sir.
Will Harding be our de facto starter at the five for every game this season? Out with injury.
Can we please please please limit our turnovers even a little bit? 15…technically an improvement.
Who will lead us in 3pt attempts tonight? Teel with six.
Will we double-up MSU in assists this game? 18-10, almost.
Will MSU top their attendance-high of 2,364? Haha, no, 2,357.
Will Wyatt Wheeler debut his MVC power rankings after this game? Not that I know of.

 

[sycamorebacker]

When we had 7 TO's the announcer said we were fortunate because MSU had only scored 7 pts off of them. I wish the basketball "experts" would figure this out. A TO takes a shot away from your offense. It has NO effect on the other team's offense.
I had a "discussion" with one of the IU Youtube guys and he swears that the pts-off-TO's adds "extra" points to your opponent's score.

 

[RunSyc]

When we had 7 TO's the announcer said we were fortunate because MSU had only scored 7 pts off of them. I wish the basketball "experts" would figure this out. A TO takes a shot away from your offense. It has NO effect on the other team's offense.
I had a "discussion" with one of the IU Youtube guys and he swears that the pts-off-TO's adds "extra" points to your opponent's score.

Suppose I technically agree with you, but some turnovers create easy baskets, transition points. So, sometimes turnovers indirectly create shot making opportunities. Isn't there some effect, even if it is indirect?

 

[sycamorebacker]

Suppose I technically agree with you, but some turnovers create easy baskets, transition points. So, sometimes turnovers indirectly create shot making opportunities. Isn't there some effect, even if it is indirect?

I think they keep track of fast break points. And you can get also transition, or easy, baskets off of missed shots.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Suppose I technically agree with you, but some turnovers create easy baskets, transition points. So, sometimes turnovers indirectly create shot making opportunities. Isn't there some effect, even if it is indirect?

Correct. But if you look at it holistically, a turnover means that your opponent now has a 35-45% (using range for 3FG/2FG NCAA average) likelihood of scoring provided they themselves get a shot off said turnover.

 

[DyedBlue]

Not all turnovers are created equal.
A travel, an offensive foul, a carry and a pass out of bounds or stepping on the out of bounds line are all dead ball turnovers. Lose a possession but no immediate advantage to the offense.
Live ball turnovers in contrast often result in a high leverage advantage for the opposition.
Points scored after them are often legitimately points after a turnover.
Hopefully, the statistician folk recognize the difference.

 

[sycamorebacker]

Not all turnovers are created equal.
A travel, an offensive foul, a carry and a pass out of bounds or stepping on the out of bounds line are all dead ball turnovers. Lose a possession but no immediate advantage to the offense.
Live ball turnovers in contrast often result in a high leverage advantage for the opposition.
Points scored after them are often legitimately points after a turnover.
Hopefully, the statistician folk recognize the differenc

• TO Pts – the number of points scored immediately after a turnover. This is determined by the user first selecting a turnover. Then if the next statistical event is a made basket of any type by the opposing team turnover points are recorded.

At 60 efg%, the damage of 7 TO's is 4.2 pts which can be quantified. Any pts by the defense directly from the TO could be counted with some subjectivity. But then do you record "easy" points from missed shots?
I think points off TO's was made up by some zealous coach or sports media for something to talk about.
A lot of TO's are steals so teams can vary in their ability to score quickly off of a steal. I guess you could call that TO assists.