Football is in trouble...

[Jason Svoboda]

I'm not talking ISU, I'm talking the sport in general.

I'm not sure how many of you have watched any preseason games, but good tackles are now being flagged as illegal hits. There was one in the Chargers/Cards game last night that was absolutely textbook, helmet to the side and he was flagged. Here is an article on a couple of the plays from the game last night. There was another where the player lowered his head and put it on the ball causing a fumble -- 15 yarder basically for endangering himself.

There were also numerous reports from training camps that the refs came in to give a presentation to players and basically nobody knew what the hell to expect after they were done. Heard the complaints from from both the Colts and Bears media on JMV's show and the Chicago shows I listen to off of The Score out of Chicago.

Also, not sure if anyone has read this piece, but now NFL players with Parkinson's and ALS are starting to make claims and the NFL has exhausted a 65-year payout projection in 18 months. Well worth the read. This has gone from being a concussion issue to being something much, much larger.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-medical-payouts-20180808-story.html

The game is inherently violent. It was marketed for decades on vicious hits and guys that played through immense pain. I remember being glued to NFL Films stuff on guys like Jim Otto, the brutal linebackers of the 60s-70s like Butkis, Lambert, etc... and remember watching VHS tapes put out by the NFL of "Hardest Hits" and the like.

The NFL is scared shitless and rightly so because the health risks aren't even up for debate -- even before the CTE epidemic hit. Watching guys like Jerome Bettis talk about how it takes him an hour to get out of bed and several hours to be able to walk/limp around, for example. Man, with the new rules and it being a passing league, it's basically going to be turned into a glorified 7-on-7 tournament. The sport is in real trouble unless they can find a way to pass liability off onto the players.

I'd also bet $10 that when Vince McMahon relaunches the XFL, he is going to do just that and market his league as "real" football. Will be interesting to see how he is able to handle liability because the WWE has many of the same issues the NFL has and he really has only been put through the ringer of PED abuse.

How do you guys see it?

 

[Bally #50]

Well put Jason. I too have jumped off the couch over some of the refs calls on the new rules and although I didn’t see the one you mentioned, there have been dozens like the one you described. I’d bet that the refs are exaggerating the rules and will ease up in the regular season. I am not basing that on anything that I have read BUT I personally feel that is correct.

The NFL has a shitload of issues to deal with, the fund drying up that you referred to is a huge problem, lawsuits from the Players Association on several counts and the whole National Anthem controversy is not going away anytime soon. The NFL is temporarily in trouble, no doubt. It’s not the first time it’s been followed by a dark cloud. It’s going nowhere, they adjust, move on, shuffle their checking accounts, and move on. I agree with everything you say BUT that I think they will move on, relatively unscathed. Attendance is down in MOST sports but like the weather my degree is all about, it’s cyclical. I much prefer college ball anyway. Of course, their rules are protecting the same thing.

 

[ISUCC]

I think I saw there are 2 high schools in Indiana that will not field (varsity) football teams this Fall due to low participation numbers. I think that trend will continue in years to come and more schools will not have football teams

 

[Bally #50]

I think I saw there are 2 high schools in Indiana that will not field (varsity) football teams this Fall due to low participation numbers. I think that trend will continue in years to come and more schools will not have football teams

Because my girlfriend is the nurse at Decatur Central, I got a bit of inside info the other day. Keep in mind that DC has a strong program in the playoffs last season and has rising stars already in place. One of their coaches told her last week that they ONLY had 40 kids out for freshman football sending a strong message that the “helicopter” mother’s are concerned and head injuries could slow or stop the game as we know it!

 

[sycamorebacker]

Losing the NFL is nothing to me. I'm not watching another game until they stand for the anthem.
They should never be allowed to kneel for the anthem and then play in the game.
Nobody has any balls anymore and are just letting the snowflakes take over.

 

[niklz62]

I'm not talking ISU, I'm talking the sport in general.

I'm not sure how many of you have watched any preseason games, but good tackles are now being flagged as illegal hits. There was one in the Chargers/Cards game last night that was absolutely textbook, helmet to the side and he was flagged. Here is an article on a couple of the plays from the game last night. There was another where the player lowered his head and put it on the ball causing a fumble -- 15 yarder basically for endangering himself.

How do you guys see it?

this should absolutely be a penalty. he went in head first with his head down. spearing has been a penalty since before I was playing at 10 years old and that was a LONG time ago. as far as big hits to the head, im not sure the highlight hits are as dangerous as the every down hits the guys on the line, RB and LBs take. i have nothing to back this up.

I saw a photo of EIU's FB team practicing and they OL was wearing pads on the outside of their helmet. I think that's a great idea. I suspect there will be some serious advances soon on helmet tech. Ive seen some where the helmet has a sensor that alerts the trainer and they immediately come off for a concussion test.

There is also a type of helicopter parent that IS at the JFL games ect. they may be worse than the ones that dont let the kids play.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

this should absolutely be a penalty. he went in head first with his head down. spearing has been a penalty since before I was playing at 10 years old and that was a LONG time ago. as far as big hits to the head, im not sure the highlight hits are as dangerous as the every down hits the guys on the line, RB and LBs take. i have nothing to back this up.

I saw a photo of EIU's FB team practicing and they OL was wearing pads on the outside of their helmet. I think that's a great idea. I suspect there will be some serious advances soon on helmet tech. Ive seen some where the helmet has a sensor that alerts the trainer and they immediately come off for a concussion test.

There is also a type of helicopter parent that IS at the JFL games ect. they may be worse than the ones that dont let the kids play.

Spearing has always been ruled helmet to opponent though, no? That's always how I've seen it called. I can't ever recall seeing it flagged for "putting a hat on the ball" which has been drilled into players for a LONG time. Even taking the actual act of "spearing" out, the vague lowering the head rule means you can essentially throw 11-22 flags on every play.

One thing that has gone largely ignored during the brain trauma debate is line play. I don't know if people just don't give a shit about the big uglies, but damn near all line play is illegal with regards to protecting the head. The first thing you're taught is leverage and the helmets of the OL/DL in an engagement are dropped to try to get lower. Toss in that damn near every interaction includes helmets being smacked, punched, etc. Think of how many times you see hands to the face and how many times you actually see the flag thrown -- it's because the game would have no pace if they called it to the letter. You speak to advancements in helmet tech with sensors. What do you think they're going to see coming from the trenches?

That is another big issue I see occurring -- the actual application of the rules. If they do it right, the game is going to be a continuous sea of yellow flags which will ruin any sort of flow to the game, make them longer, etc. If they ignore certain positions and then those positions end up being the bulk of the suits down the road, they're opening the doors to massive liability issues. Then there is the uneven application of the rules just in general.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Sports have changed a lot over the years. I'm not sure the technology has kept up with kids being just bigger, faster and stronger. I think it's always been a brutal game - but I think the hitting is harder now than ever and the pressure on these athletes to preform has always been high.

I look at Nascar (a struggling sport for various reasons) we've seen some very notable retirements at fairly young ages in the last couple years. Most notably Dale Jr who basically came out and said he was retiring because he was scared for his life. But Gordon, Carl Edwards and Tony Stewart have all stepped away from the sport. I've got to think that those guys gave some consideration to their quality of health/life when walking away from the sport.

I don't have kids yet - but when I do I will strongly encourage them to participate in other sports other than football. I never played the sport myself - but have enjoyed watching it at all levels. I'm not sure that it will ever be completely gone - I don't foresee that at all. But changes will continue to be made to the sport for player safety - it might not benefit the watch-ability of the game - but in the long run if fewer athletes get hurt then it's a good thing.

 

[Gotta Hav]

I don't have kids yet - but when I do I will strongly encourage them to participate in other sports other than football. I never played the sport myself - but have enjoyed watching it at all levels. I'm not sure that it will ever be completely gone - I don't foresee that at all. But changes will continue to be made to the sport for player safety - it might not benefit the watch-ability of the game - but in the long run if fewer athletes get hurt then it's a good thing.

Well make sure you don't have girls, cuz Cheerleading and Gymnastics is more dangerous than Bull Riding.

Cheerleading is in the top three sports for injuries in terms of concussion rates, or 12 concussions per 10,000 injuries.
http://www.worldsultimate.net/most-dangerous-sports.htm

And according to this site, Track and Field for girls isn't too safe either....like Pole Vaulting, Discus, Shot Put, Hammer, Javelin

https://www.propertycasualty360.com/2014/09/11/the-10-most-dangerous-youth-sports-in-america

How bout a shout out also for CTE symptons caused by Cheerleading, Gymnastics and Track and Field...ugh.

There are several of these sites on the interrnet with their own statistics, so there are more take-aways or interpretations for others to make.

 

[Bluethunder]

Spoke with a guy I work with and he is a former high school and college coach. He feels that football will struggle in the coming years to get enough kids to form teams. Said it should be interesting, but fewer and fewer students are playing in the younger leagues due to money and also the risk of injury and he doesn't see that reversing. Ironically, cost is a consideration for many parents and the more you make the game safe with newer technology and equipment the more you raise the cost to play. Kind of a double edged sword.

While I do not have sons, I can say that if I did, it would be very unlikely that I would allow them to play. I would steer them towards other sports.

I think as more and more professional athletes come out and say they either won't allow or will strongly discourage their own kids, grand kids from playing, it will continue to hurt the sport.

 

[sycamore tuff]

Perhaps rules need to be changed that make hitting a player with the ball illegal. No, I am not joking. When I was a kid we used to designate the game as either flag, touch or tackle football. Tackling is a rare thing in today's game. Violent hits are used instead of tackling the guy with the ball. Also, remove most of the safety gear and the players will probably be safer. As the gear gets better, the hits get harder. I'm just guessing at this stuff. Any major injuries occurring in rugby?

 

[Bluethunder]

Perhaps rules need to be changed that make hitting a player with the ball illegal. No, I am not joking. When I was a kid we used to designate the game as either flag, touch or tackle football. Tackling is a rare thing in today's game. Violent hits are used instead of tackling the guy with the ball. Also, remove most of the safety gear and the players will probably be safer. As the gear gets better, the hits get harder. I'm just guessing at this stuff. Any major injuries occurring in rugby?

I have always wondered the same thing. If Rugby players don't suffer injuries at even close to the same rate as football players, could there be a relationship between a lack of padding and less of a desire to hit hard? When players know they risk serious injury without this protection are they more likely to tackle the correct way?

 

[Sycamore Proud]

About 60 years ago our family Dr. told my mother and me he would prefer his son to play football than basketball. His opinion was that most football injuries would be healed with time. Hoops pm the other hand could likely result in heart issues starting about 40 years of age. I have no idea if any kind of study was done at that time, but is sure seems to be different than that today. Also at that time you rarely saw and adult jogging or running.

 

[4Q_iu]

About 60 years ago our family Dr. told my mother and me he would prefer his son to play football than basketball. His opinion was that most football injuries would be healed with time. Hoops pm the other hand could likely result in heart issues starting about 40 years of age. I have no idea if any kind of study was done at that time, but is sure seems to be different than that today. Also at that time you rarely saw and adult jogging or running.

Seems a bit odd, on that Dr's point; I've read that a higher number of basketball players have been diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome but that's a b/c people with Marfan tend to be above average height... And on average, really big (tall) people tend to live shorter lives; again b/c they're big not because they play b-ball.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I think I saw there are 2 high schools in Indiana that will not field (varsity) football teams this Fall due to low participation numbers. I think that trend will continue in years to come and more schools will not have football teams

Because my girlfriend is the nurse at Decatur Central, I got a bit of inside info the other day. Keep in mind that DC has a strong program in the playoffs last season and has rising stars already in place. One of their coaches told her last week that they ONLY had 40 kids out for freshman football sending a strong message that the “helicopter” mother’s are concerned and head injuries could slow or stop the game as we know it!

I have always wondered the same thing. If Rugby players don't suffer injuries at even close to the same rate as football players, could there be a relationship between a lack of padding and less of a desire to hit hard? When players know they risk serious injury without this protection are they more likely to tackle the correct way?

I think there have been new studies or reports coming out that say rugby is just as dangerous, if not more. I thought I read in a CTE piece awhile back that just one season of rugby is enough to cause brain damage.

 

[niklz62]

I think there have been new studies or reports coming out that say rugby is just as dangerous, if not more. I thought I read in a CTE piece awhile back that just one season of rugby is enough to cause brain damage.

I think rugby tackles have to be with their head behind the runner. Ive heard this could be a factor if it isnt as dangerous. no science though

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I think rugby tackles have to be with their head behind the runner. Ive heard this could be a factor if it isnt as dangerous. no science though

Check out this article. It's older, but a good insight into rugby. I was shocked to see that the typical rugby game has 2.5x the number of tackles as a NFL game -- guess I've never watched a full match. Article also talks about a lot of neck and spinal injuries and mentions over 100 players have been paralyzed in Brittan alone.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/concussion/is-rugby-or-american-football-more-dangerous

 

[Bally #50]

Check out this article. It's older, but a good insight into rugby. I was shocked to see that the typical rugby game has 2.5x the number of tackles as a NFL game -- guess I've never watched a full match. Article also talks about a lot of neck and spinal injuries and mentions over 100 players have been paralyzed in Brittan alone.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/concussion/is-rugby-or-american-football-more-dangerous

You guys really haven’t been around too many rugby games, have you? If you think your average rugby player give a shit how he tackles someone, you must have a head injury already. First of all, they play the game with virtually no equipment but a thick cotton jersey. The rules are much more geared to sportsmanship, ie dirty hits, low blows, or unsportsmanlike conduct. The injury rates are high because the game is brutal. It’s a beautiful game but it takes a certain type of guy (or gal) to play it. It’s been played the same for centuries and don’t expect any big changes anytime soon.

 

[#33]

I'm not talking ISU, I'm talking the sport in general.

I'm not sure how many of you have watched any preseason games, but good tackles are now being flagged as illegal hits. There was one in the Chargers/Cards game last night that was absolutely textbook, helmet to the side and he was flagged. Here is an article on a couple of the plays from the game last night. There was another where the player lowered his head and put it on the ball causing a fumble -- 15 yarder basically for endangering himself.

There were also numerous reports from training camps that the refs came in to give a presentation to players and basically nobody knew what the hell to expect after they were done. Heard the complaints from from both the Colts and Bears media on JMV's show and the Chicago shows I listen to off of The Score out of Chicago.

Also, not sure if anyone has read this piece, but now NFL players with Parkinson's and ALS are starting to make claims and the NFL has exhausted a 65-year payout projection in 18 months. Well worth the read. This has gone from being a concussion issue to being something much, much larger.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-medical-payouts-20180808-story.html

The game is inherently violent. It was marketed for decades on vicious hits and guys that played through immense pain. I remember being glued to NFL Films stuff on guys like Jim Otto, the brutal linebackers of the 60s-70s like Butkis, Lambert, etc... and remember watching VHS tapes put out by the NFL of "Hardest Hits" and the like.

The NFL is scared shitless and rightly so because the health risks aren't even up for debate -- even before the CTE epidemic hit. Watching guys like Jerome Bettis talk about how it takes him an hour to get out of bed and several hours to be able to walk/limp around, for example. Man, with the new rules and it being a passing league, it's basically going to be turned into a glorified 7-on-7 tournament. The sport is in real trouble unless they can find a way to pass liability off onto the players.

I'd also bet $10 that when Vince McMahon relaunches the XFL, he is going to do just that and market his league as "real" football. Will be interesting to see how he is able to handle liability because the WWE has many of the same issues the NFL has and he really has only been put through the ringer of PED abuse.

How do you guys see it?

NOTE: I know I have spelling errors, I'm working w/ limited time. For some reason, my spell check tool, Grammarly for social media doesen't work on the site.

I agree with you totally, the NFL is doing what NASCAR did 15 yrs ago by losing their core fan base, they made the cars look a like and made rule changes to go after additional market share, obviously it has back fired.

The NFL 20 yrs ago made rule changes, protecting the QB and WR's to make it more appealing to potential female viewers which was a wonderful success. Up until then it was a male dominated viewer sport. Now to the current, not only are they losing the female viewer they brought in 20 yrs ago becasue of head trama, it's a double hit, the middle aged hard core male NFL specator is saying the hell with it!! The perfect storm has negatively hit the sport.....head trama, rule changes and then 3 yrs ago, kneeling durring the anthem.

Not to change the subject but check out the following players weight increases from last year:

Z Larkin, 200 up to 240
J Keys 190 to 220
S Thomas 295 - 315
K Kcechowiski 265 - 295
W Woziniak 270 - 295...much need should be more effective
M Morgan-Elliot 270-290
J Perras 290- 300
J Griffin 220- 240
P Powell MOST IMPRESSIVE AND MUCH NEEDED ON THE D LINE : 235-270
R Mosley 280-290

The strength coach has done a great job, now hopefully it will translate into something great on the field.

 

[niklz62]

You guys really haven’t been around too many rugby games, have you? If you think your average rugby player give a shit how he tackles someone, you must have a head injury already. First of all, they play the game with virtually no equipment but a thick cotton jersey. The rules are much more geared to sportsmanship, ie dirty hits, low blows, or unsportsmanlike conduct. The injury rates are high because the game is brutal. It’s a beautiful game but it takes a certain type of guy (or gal) to play it. It’s been played the same for centuries and don’t expect any big changes anytime soon.

I dont think I could have been around less rugby games. Im aware that it exists. I know EIU had a women's rugby team. A friend of my always posts on Facebook and I think saw some Australian guys dancing before a game, but I wouldn't bet that they weren't Australian Rules Football players. I probably couldnt be more apathetic toward rugby, BUT, like I said, I HEARD that they have to tackle with their head behind the runner.