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[January 25, 2022] Indiana State (8-10) vs Missouri State (15-6)
- Thread starter Jason Svoboda
- Start date
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We take it to the end occasionally, but not very often. We use the right amount of clock in most cases.
We know everyone here is “buying” pretty much everything… It’s those willing to spectate hope from reality that I really am interested to hear from. We all hope it’s an all out buy!
If last night didn’t give you pause - wondering why Hittle was so far out of favor with JS on this depleted roster nothing will.
If last night didn’t give you pause - wondering why Hittle was so far out of favor with JS on this depleted roster nothing will.
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Our average possession length this year is 17.0 seconds. It’s been a tick slower in conference play at 17.5. It’s not blazing fast. This stat also includes offensive rebounds too, but we generally don’t get many of those anyway so I don’t think it’s inclusion matters much.
To compare to past few years:
2021 - 17.7
2020 - 18.5
2019 - 17.5
This may make it seem we’re not playing with a higher tempo/pace this year, but we definitely are. The 18.5 average in 2020 was one of the slowest in the country. There’s not a lot of margin separating this stat.
Now, if you want to see the differences in speed from this year to years past, you have to look at adjusted tempo. Adjusted tempo is an estimate of the possessions per 40 minutes a team would have against an average D1 tempo team. These are pretty stark contrast to last year and beyond:
2022 - 71.3 (29th highest in D1, highest in MVC)
2021 - 66.9 (244th)
2020 - 66.4 (270th)
2019 - 68.9 (106th)
Honestly that game last night shouldn't have even been in doubt at the end. We blew SEVERAL layups at the rim following perfect/beautiful passes in the second half. We pretty much kicked butt!!
I have zero doubt the band director heard you. He flinched when you said it and went to three abbreviated versions next time out.
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A very significant change in the O. Wayyyy more cutting action - wayyy more dribble drive - wayyyy more one-on-on isolation. It’s a night and day difference. Gone are the days where we run the same stupid out of bounds play where we throw a lob pass and turn it over.
It’s not always pretty - we go through some really rough stretches when people quit moving without the ball and when we stop hitting shots and the D packs in on us. That happens to all teams when O starts sucking.
It’s a really nice change from the past. But it was never about could JS coach O - if they had offensive coordinators in hoops JS wouldn’t have been @ Lincoln most of his career.
My thoughts:
- Like SSOM said, Hittle is your player of the game. Missouri State probably didn't even know the kid was on the roster and ended up being the difference between winning and losing that game.
- Prim is 1/5 the player he was the last couple years. I don't know if he just had a bad game but 90% of our 3s the first half were thanks to him and he wasn't the bully downlow that he has been his career at MSU. I found myself upset when they took him out because we were lighting him up.
- Larry did his job on the offensive end but excelled on the defensive side of the ball. Not only was he playing sound defense against Mosley the entire game but he was creating plays against him. The hardest working coach on the MSU sideline was Mosley's Emotional Therapist.
- Good to get a win finally. Not going to say that we fixed our problems in closing out games because man-o-man did it look like we were going to give that one away. But it has to be good for physique just to walk out of the gym with a very good win.
- MSUs roster talent is tops in the MVC but they remind me of some of the Redbird teams in Mullers early career where they just don't mesh as a team and play to their full potential. As frustrating as it seems at times to be a Sycamore fan; Bears fans have had it rough the last 20 years in falling short of expectations.
- Let's just enjoy this one!
- Like SSOM said, Hittle is your player of the game. Missouri State probably didn't even know the kid was on the roster and ended up being the difference between winning and losing that game.
- Prim is 1/5 the player he was the last couple years. I don't know if he just had a bad game but 90% of our 3s the first half were thanks to him and he wasn't the bully downlow that he has been his career at MSU. I found myself upset when they took him out because we were lighting him up.
- Larry did his job on the offensive end but excelled on the defensive side of the ball. Not only was he playing sound defense against Mosley the entire game but he was creating plays against him. The hardest working coach on the MSU sideline was Mosley's Emotional Therapist.
- Good to get a win finally. Not going to say that we fixed our problems in closing out games because man-o-man did it look like we were going to give that one away. But it has to be good for physique just to walk out of the gym with a very good win.
- MSUs roster talent is tops in the MVC but they remind me of some of the Redbird teams in Mullers early career where they just don't mesh as a team and play to their full potential. As frustrating as it seems at times to be a Sycamore fan; Bears fans have had it rough the last 20 years in falling short of expectations.
- Let's just enjoy this one!
Twitch - don't understand why you think Hittle was in JS's doghouse. I think it was more a case of his serious back injury that damn near ended his career.
Where to start...
If he was healthy enough to bang with Primm then he was health enough to play vs. Valpo - where we got completely abused in the paint and by Krikkie. Valpo didn't beat us by hitting 3's they only hit 5 in the game. It was all easy buckets at the rim and I didn't really know it before last night but Hittle appears to be our best post defender vs. like built bigs.
He also hasn't played in 5 games. In the 8 games that he has played he he's played garbage time averaging 6.8 mins a game and that # is inflated by the 15 he played last night.
I don't know that he was in his "doghouse" per say. But we've got nothing from Tucker. Wilbar isn't really a banger - he's a threat to score and he's going to continue to develop. But this roster isn't so deep that Hittle should have been buried on the bench. So while I credit JS for going to him last night - I also question him for not going to him vs. Valpo or UNI where he clearly could have been utilized.
JS talks extensively about Hittle
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For what it's worth, after last night's game we've played the hardest schedule in the MVC...by quite a lot. Just need to remember that it's a long season. We still have 5 games versus Evansville, Illinois State and Valpo (who we need to beat next time). If we take care of business in those games plus win some tougher remaining home games against UNI and SIU, we have a shot to make it out of Thursday.
Someone on the MoSt message board said, "its unreal, I've watched ISU play a lot this year, and that guy doesn't even play"
I believe against UNI Hittle was in street clothes but really wish he would have gotten some PT against SIU and Valpo. Could have made a difference? We'll never know.
SycamoreBlue3209
The Newsom Level
This is a great point. I looked at our remaining schedule prior to yesterdays game and thought we should win 7 more games, at worst 6. That included us losing last night. After last night and hopefully getting Coop back, we can avoid Thursday and give it a real shot it STL.
DyedBlue
The All-MVC Level
+/- Report for Jame on Jan. 25, 2022 ISU 76 vs Missouri State 72 at Hulman Center
Nick Hittle is player of the game with a +12 in 15 minutes of action.
Larry played 37 minutes leaving the game when Moseley left the floor and coming back when Moseley returned. Moseley scored 25 and, as noted previously, committed 7 turnovers. Of those, Larry was involved on six of them and the other was possibly the play of the game when Hobbs turned him over on a breakaway. Of the 25 points scored, 11 came after Larry was effectively screened at the high post with ineffective help (three times) and twice leading to 5 points when ISU turnovers led to MSU breakaways resulting in a 3 pointer and a layup for Moseley.
For everyone but Wilbar and Hittle, it was a game of "+" first half and "-" second half.
In particular, the five on the floor from 9:08-6:32 of the second half (Hobbs, Bledson, Larry, Henry, Stephens) registered a -9. Isaac Haney, MSU freshman, entered the game and nailed two threes plus buckets by Moseley and Clay while ISU had misses by Hobbs, Bledson and Stephens. 65-48 became 65-58 in 2.5 minutes of play.
Did Dana Ford try to hard to give Minnett a big role on a night when he was 'off'? 0/7 from field in his return to his hometown. And that big run started just after he left the floor.
Player.....................Minutes Total........+/- First Half...................+/- Second Half......+/- game.............Comments
Hobbs..................................36..................+10.......................................-8.....................................+2....................Lots of playing time coming Hobbs' way with Neese out. 4/6 on 3 Ptrs. 6 RBD
Bledson................................22...................+8........................................-8.................................0...........................Quiet on scoreboard and rebounds but 8 assists
Thomas...............................27.....................+1.......................................-1.................................0......................... 7 pts; 2 assists; 2 turnovers; 2 rbds (less than normal)
Wilbar.................................14.....................+2........................................0........................................+2...................Normal pattern of starting both halves and not playing again.
Larry....................................37.....................+9.........................................-10..........................-1.............................Disrupted Moseley's expected performance. Only 3/10 from field but 5 A's and ....................................................................................................................................................................................................8 rebounds.
Henry..................................34.......................+15......................................-13..................................+2.....................A tale of two halves.
Stephens............................15..........................+8....................................-5.............................................+3..................4 Rbds; one huge block; a couple painful missed putbacks/layups.
Hittle...................................15........................+7......................................+5.........................................................................+12....Way out to the right on the number line. A great effort.
Nick Hittle is player of the game with a +12 in 15 minutes of action.
Larry played 37 minutes leaving the game when Moseley left the floor and coming back when Moseley returned. Moseley scored 25 and, as noted previously, committed 7 turnovers. Of those, Larry was involved on six of them and the other was possibly the play of the game when Hobbs turned him over on a breakaway. Of the 25 points scored, 11 came after Larry was effectively screened at the high post with ineffective help (three times) and twice leading to 5 points when ISU turnovers led to MSU breakaways resulting in a 3 pointer and a layup for Moseley.
For everyone but Wilbar and Hittle, it was a game of "+" first half and "-" second half.
In particular, the five on the floor from 9:08-6:32 of the second half (Hobbs, Bledson, Larry, Henry, Stephens) registered a -9. Isaac Haney, MSU freshman, entered the game and nailed two threes plus buckets by Moseley and Clay while ISU had misses by Hobbs, Bledson and Stephens. 65-48 became 65-58 in 2.5 minutes of play.
Did Dana Ford try to hard to give Minnett a big role on a night when he was 'off'? 0/7 from field in his return to his hometown. And that big run started just after he left the floor.
Player.....................Minutes Total........+/- First Half...................+/- Second Half......+/- game.............Comments
Hobbs..................................36..................+10.......................................-8.....................................+2....................Lots of playing time coming Hobbs' way with Neese out. 4/6 on 3 Ptrs. 6 RBD
Bledson................................22...................+8........................................-8.................................0...........................Quiet on scoreboard and rebounds but 8 assists
Thomas...............................27.....................+1.......................................-1.................................0......................... 7 pts; 2 assists; 2 turnovers; 2 rbds (less than normal)
Wilbar.................................14.....................+2........................................0........................................+2...................Normal pattern of starting both halves and not playing again.
Larry....................................37.....................+9.........................................-10..........................-1.............................Disrupted Moseley's expected performance. Only 3/10 from field but 5 A's and ....................................................................................................................................................................................................8 rebounds.
Henry..................................34.......................+15......................................-13..................................+2.....................A tale of two halves.
Stephens............................15..........................+8....................................-5.............................................+3..................4 Rbds; one huge block; a couple painful missed putbacks/layups.
Hittle...................................15........................+7......................................+5.........................................................................+12....Way out to the right on the number line. A great effort.
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Can we defeat the team that defeated Loyola? YES.
Can we defend against the team that couldn't be defended by Loyola? YES.
How many Sycamores will foul out? ZERO.
Can Larry hold Mosely to fewer than 40 points? Fewer than 30? Fewer than...ahem, 20? YES, YES, No.
If Mosely doesn't go off on us, will Prim go off on us? NO.
If Mosely and Prim don't go off on us, will Ja'Monta Black go off on us? NO.
Will Jaylen Minnett's homecoming be the catalyst for him going off on us? Sorry, Jaylen. Just not your night.
Without Neese, do we have enough weapons to keep up with MSU's scoring? YES.
How many points can we score vs MSU? 76 as far as this game is concerned.
Is Dana Ford an overrated coach? Underrated? Who am I to judge, but...he might be a little overrated.
Remember when Missouri State was Southwest Missouri State? Ah, the good ol' days. Yes, I remember.
Can we defend against the team that couldn't be defended by Loyola? YES.
How many Sycamores will foul out? ZERO.
Can Larry hold Mosely to fewer than 40 points? Fewer than 30? Fewer than...ahem, 20? YES, YES, No.
If Mosely doesn't go off on us, will Prim go off on us? NO.
If Mosely and Prim don't go off on us, will Ja'Monta Black go off on us? NO.
Will Jaylen Minnett's homecoming be the catalyst for him going off on us? Sorry, Jaylen. Just not your night.
Without Neese, do we have enough weapons to keep up with MSU's scoring? YES.
How many points can we score vs MSU? 76 as far as this game is concerned.
Is Dana Ford an overrated coach? Underrated? Who am I to judge, but...he might be a little overrated.
Remember when Missouri State was Southwest Missouri State? Ah, the good ol' days. Yes, I remember.
Odum missed games later in his career with a foot problem
Key: Wouldn't it be interesting to know how long her played through a surgical operation to fix this lingering problem
Neese: Neck injury related to collision / fall / off court
I feel bad for not remembering the other injuries (Burnett - car accident? / ________ foot injury during Bahama trip?)
How do these parse out relative to other Valley teams? It is impossible to stay healthy for a whole season, but.....
Key: Wouldn't it be interesting to know how long her played through a surgical operation to fix this lingering problem
Neese: Neck injury related to collision / fall / off court
I feel bad for not remembering the other injuries (Burnett - car accident? / ________ foot injury during Bahama trip?)
How do these parse out relative to other Valley teams? It is impossible to stay healthy for a whole season, but.....