[January 8, 2025] Indiana State (9-6) at Valparaiso (9-6)

[Jason Svoboda]

I think one of the biggest issues is we didn’t have @Jason Svoboda here with us most of the night… Just didn’t have the same flow to it here either without his guidance.

Yeah, I'll take the L for this one.

I have a standing Wednesday night dinner so I got to watch the 2nd half driving to it. I'm sure people thought I was stroking out or road raging because I was screaming at all of our missed free throws.

HIT YOUR FUCKING FREE THROWS!

 

[BlueBleeder]

Joey O brought up Vorst in the post game interview stating DV had a really good stretch in the first half, but didn't have the stones to ask why he didn't play in the second half. I guess that's why I wouldn't be a good call man for ISU....I want answers as to why a coach makes decisions that go against what seems obvious. Graves bitched about our horrible defense, but never let Vorst back on the court after he provided great interior defense in the first half. I just can't make sense of that. You have another kid who has shown you he can defend and hit a big shot in Jayen Walker, but he rarely sees the floor either, meanwhile we are getting ZERO from Alocen and very little from Summers. Am i being a major A-hole, am I missing something or is there legit concern here?

 

[RunSyc]

Joey O brought up Vorst in the post game interview stating DV had a really good stretch in the first half, but didn't have the stones to ask why he didn't play in the second half. I guess that's why I wouldn't be a good call man for ISU....I want answers as to why a coach makes decisions that go against what seems obvious. Graves bitched about our horrible defense, but never let Vorst back on the court after he provided great interior defense in the first half. I just can't make sense of that. You have another kid who has shown you he can defend and hit a big shot in Jayen Walker, but he rarely sees the floor either, meanwhile we are getting ZERO from Alocen and very little from Summers. Am i being a major A-hole, am I missing something or is there legit concern here?

Valid points

Sounded like Graves late game timeouts & called offensive plays afterwards were strategic & mostly effective (learned from Bradley's game).

Gut tells me adjustments will be made for Belmont. I'm not yet concerned, but something to watch for.

 

[jturner38]

What was said?

lol this forum myself included would have a little something for everyone given the amount of active posters we have here.

They should strive to have this much engagement - not just Valpo about every fan forum on the planet. Should also be noted that we spend more time on here (like most fan forums) bitching about our own teams performance than anything else… All fan forums are the same - certainly if you’ve come here for some validation or to dissect every post you’re doing it all wrong. Get a life - like for real.

The way that game was officiated last night from a watch ability perspective was miserable - but they were consistent. Making it worse we had to listen to the worst announcers in the history explain to us what a good call was and just emphatically imply it was an amazing college basketball game. Ummm no it was not.

Nothing important honestly. I just get annoyed at the word "bitching and whining"

 

[sycamore tuff]

Joey O brought up Vorst in the post game interview stating DV had a really good stretch in the first half, but didn't have the stones to ask why he didn't play in the second half. I guess that's why I wouldn't be a good call man for ISU....I want answers as to why a coach makes decisions that go against what seems obvious. Graves bitched about our horrible defense, but never let Vorst back on the court after he provided great interior defense in the first half. I just can't make sense of that. You have another kid who has shown you he can defend and hit a big shot in Jayen Walker, but he rarely sees the floor either, meanwhile we are getting ZERO from Alocen and very little from Summers. Am i being a major A-hole, am I missing something or is there legit concern here?

Yes. You pick the question

 

[swsycamore]

Wagner on the bench! WTF is Graves doing!!!! This is now on him! Maybe South Alabama was no fluke!

I sometimes feel like Graves and myself aren't watching the same game. Vorst gives quality minutes and then is sent to the bench for fumble bum Harding.

 

[swsycamore]

Where are the minutes going to come? He played 10 guys last night. We are 5 games into conference play - he needs to be shortening his bench and doing it soon not playing everyone random ass spot minutes.

Summers - sorry... He's had an opportunity, why is he getting 10 minutes last night?

Harding - after that first half and you got completely out played by Vorst and JD why are you getting any run in the second half? Foul trouble or injury would have been the only reason for me. Look at his last 4 games - completely unacceptable.

You know what you got in Teel, JD, KD and Camp.

Because JD gets in foul trouble and seems to get worn down quite a bit you've got Gray who's giving you better minutes and based on last night I'm giving Vorst the majority of those minutes Harding has been playing.

Then you got Bruno - Graves isn't going to go away from him because he doesn't have anywhere else to go.

Based on the last couple of games Graves seems committed to Legree... I am not so sure that Walker wouldn't be a better option on both ends of the floor than Legree right now. At any rate - he needs to shorten his bench. Playing 10 guys is ridiculous at this point in the season.

Legree scares me every time he gets the ball. Completely plays out of control

 

[RunSyc]

I sometimes feel like Graves and myself aren't watching the same game. Vorst gives quality minutes and then is sent to the bench for fumble bum Harding.

No need for personal attack or name calling.

 

[slobjones]

Nothing important honestly. I just get annoyed at the word "bitching and whining"

That's three words.

 

[slobjones]

Show me he had some moments… He opened us up offensively we were struggling to touch paint and he was creating.

Once Graves starting to give him a little freedom his decision making has sort of been questionable at times. Plays a little more casual than I would prefer for a true PG.

Graves appears committed to LeGree's development, but forcing him into the lineup in OT doomed the Sycamores tonight.

 

[SYCAMORE81]

I know I have mentioned this before but why not give Alderink some minutes? He can surely get a few meaningful minutes somewhere during the game. If you never play I guy I can’t blame a guy for leaving. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t he rated as a 3 star recruit out of high school?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I know I have mentioned this before but why not give Alderink some minutes? He can surely get a few meaningful minutes somewhere during the game. If you never play I guy I can’t blame a guy for leaving. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t he rated as a 3 star recruit out of high school?

Who do you want him to play in front of? You have to be able to tell us who that would be and make your case why - because he's already playing 10 guys a game which in my opinion is way too many.

Far and away our best game this season was vs. Bradley at home. He played 9 guys that game and he played 7 significant minutes. Walker and Summers played 8 and 9 a piece - all-be-it Walker gave us a really big lift with his minutes. Harding played 20 minutes in that game recording 1 point and 4 defense rebounds.

Based on the Valpo game and Harding's poor performance of late - Vorst not only earned some run last game I'd give him the start and send a message. It aint going to happen - but that is what I would do. But again, you insert Vorst into playing and you're back to playing 10 or 11 guys a game and you want Merrick to get some run? I will be honest, I would love to see what he can do as well but he's blocked.

Let me take it one step further in referencing that Bradley game - Gray didn't play at all in that game. Gray is back to playing meaningful minutes and to be perfectly honest, we probably don't win the Evansville game without him and he gave us a decent lift in the Valpo game - him being in the game was justified in my opinion. So Merrick is now blocked by Gray.

Where are the minutes going to come?!

 

[SYCAMORE81]

Who do you want him to play in front of? You have to be able to tell us who that would be and make your case why - because he's already playing 10 guys a game which in my opinion is way too many.

Far and away our best game this season was vs. Bradley at home. He played 9 guys that game and he played 7 significant minutes. Walker and Summers played 8 and 9 a piece - all-be-it Walker gave us a really big lift with his minutes. Harding played 20 minutes in that game recording 1 point and 4 defense rebounds.

Based on the Valpo game and Harding's poor performance of late - Vorst not only earned some run last game I'd give him the start and send a message. It aint going to happen - but that is what I would do. But again, you insert Vorst into playing and you're back to playing 10 or 11 guys a game and you want Merrick to get some run? I will be honest, I would love to see what he can do as well but he's blocked.

Let me take it one step further in referencing that Bradley game - Gray didn't play at all in that game. Gray is back to playing meaningful minutes and to be perfectly honest, we probably don't win the Evansville game without him and he gave us a decent lift in the Valpo game - him being in the game was justified in my opinion. So Merrick is now blocked by Gray.

Where are the minutes going to come?!

I agree with you on Vorst. I have always been a big fan of him. As for whose minutes Alderink should take. I don’t know. When I go and watch practice I can’t find a player that works harder than him. If it is a drill or playing on the scout team he shines. He regularly holds his own against the starters. If you want to send a message then reward a guy that works like that.

 

[BlueBleeder]

Who do you want him to play in front of? You have to be able to tell us who that would be and make your case why - because he's already playing 10 guys a game which in my opinion is way too many.

Far and away our best game this season was vs. Bradley at home. He played 9 guys that game and he played 7 significant minutes. Walker and Summers played 8 and 9 a piece - all-be-it Walker gave us a really big lift with his minutes. Harding played 20 minutes in that game recording 1 point and 4 defense rebounds.

Based on the Valpo game and Harding's poor performance of late - Vorst not only earned some run last game I'd give him the start and send a message. It aint going to happen - but that is what I would do. But again, you insert Vorst into playing and you're back to playing 10 or 11 guys a game and you want Merrick to get some run? I will be honest, I would love to see what he can do as well but he's blocked.

Let me take it one step further in referencing that Bradley game - Gray didn't play at all in that game. Gray is back to playing meaningful minutes and to be perfectly honest, we probably don't win the Evansville game without him and he gave us a decent lift in the Valpo game - him being in the game was justified in my opinion. So Merrick is now blocked by Gray.

Where are the minutes going to come?!

You are spot on with this. I hope MA takes whatever he can get this season and practices his ass off to be ready for next season. Merritt has a ton of talent and appears to be a real good teammate. His time will come next season, so I hope he stays. We will be losing Harding, Doughty and Gray for sure so a guy at his position with system experience who has tools to work with will be very important.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I agree with you on Vorst. I have always been a big fan of him. As for whose minutes Alderink should take. I don’t know. When I go and watch practice I can’t find a player that works harder than him. If it is a drill or playing on the scout team he shines. He regularly holds his own against the starters. If you want to send a message then reward a guy that works like that.

I hear that... But I don't think this team has had an issue (on game day is all I can speak to) with effort - so who we sending a message to you know? I mean the very limited minutes he's gotten he's played well but as I've said before at this point we are 5 games into conference play. I would prefer Graves at this point start to shorten his bench and the only way Harding, Summers, Walker, Merrick or anyone else is getting any extra PT is if we are in foul trouble or we have an injury. At that point - if any of those guys get in the game they are going to need to produce like Gray has of late and like Vorst did the other night. Because prior to that - those minutes were up for grab.

It will be really interesting to see if Graves rewards Vorst because he sure as hell opted not to reward him in the second half vs. Valpo. It was a real head scratcher for me... You go back and watch that game - in the first half he comes in the game and we suddenly have some presence at the rim, he blocks a couple shots and snatches some offensive rebounds. You get neither of those things from Harding.

Second half - boom they start attacking the rim again and are getting everything they want. What does Graves do to counter? He could have gone Vorst and should have - but he went zone. I actually suggested it as well in the game thread - but what he should have tried first was Vorst then maybe zone if that didn't work. We got a stop the first pos. of zone and then they got a wide open 3 the next pos. and we never played zone again in the game.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

You are spot on with this. I hope MA takes whatever he can get this season and practices his ass off to be ready for next season. Merritt has a ton of talent and appears to be a real good teammate. His time will come next season, so I hope he stays. We will be losing Harding, Doughty and Gray for sure so a guy at his position with system experience who has tools to work with will be very important.

Yeah - this is no slight to the kid. Hell, of everyone on this roster I have personally talked to both MA and his dad on multiple occasions outside of just basketball. Can't say that about anyone else on this roster if I had a personal bias (obviously don't) it would be for him.

 

[SYCAMORE81]

Good conversation. Just want to see him play some. I agree, Gray has improved. Glad to see it for him.

 

[sycamore tuff]

I haven't seen any games lately. Work keeps getting in the way. Vorst needs to be in the games. If he was good enough to get minutes last year, he should be getting minutes this year. Alderink needs minutes coming off the bench. He appears to be high energy and should be able to not only spark the team but light a fire.

 

[jturner38]

I haven't seen any games lately. Work keeps getting in the way. Vorst needs to be in the games. If he was good enough to get minutes last year, he should be getting minutes this year. Alderink needs minutes coming off the bench. He appears to be high energy and should be able to not only spark the team but light a fire.

Well coming from ppl who have been it’s been explained. To recap, Vorst wasn’t playing because he was hurt. Then he had to work his way back. Valpo game was the first game since coming back where he looked the part. It’s already been explained about Alderink there’s no minutes for him. You have to take away minutes from someone else and as it was said a few posts ago whose minutes is he taking?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

As if it hasn't been said already - plainly put.

If you think someone deserves minutes that is not getting them - you need to be able to state who deserves minutes, who they are taking minutes from and why... Playing 10 guys is insane and I will say, it would make Graves life a lot easier late in games if he had more continuity and quit just rolling with whoever is randomly playing well.

My late-game lineup from here out would probably be:

Teel
Camp
KD
Gray
JD

And the only other guy I'd give any consideration to would be Bruno because he shoots free throws well and he's another ball handler. I'm giving him a free pass on the Bradley late turnover and missed free throws late earlier this season vs. SIUE I believe. Chalking both up to inexperience and coaching in the Bradley game. Other than that the above lineup are the only trusted players late in game - it's not that hard.