The Decline of Terre Haute High School Athletics

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Sycamore Blue said:
Terre Haute schools are way behind with their infrastructure. The current project VCSC consist of improvements to upgrade mechanical systems at all three high schools. Otter Creek did recently get an addition of an auxiliary gym, cafeteria, and choir room along with renovation of cafeteria space, performing arts, and locker room spaces. Didn't touch a 1/3 of the school though. In recent years, Clay Community Schools have added additions/renovations. Bloomington built a brand new middle school and tore down the existing. Greencastle has done a renovation/addition at their high school. Covington has done some renovation work. South Putnam did a renovation to the high school and is now building a fieldhouse. Plainfield has done renovations and additions. Cascade is building a fieldhouse.

Being in some of these school corporation buildings is an eye opening experience to what Terre Haute schools currently offers. Plainfield Community School Corporation is pretty impressive and has multiple former VCSC teachers working within the corporation now.

This isn't a knock to VCSC but a truth of reality. Very few of the schools are up to date and when you look around to surrounding communities they are all investing in their infrastructure to provide better experiences for students and staff. When future employers are looking to invest and plant roots in a community two major factors have to be schooling and housing options. Two things that are issues in Terre Haute and things that need work. I will give credit to our local leaders for working to address the housing issue.
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Is this a big dick contest? Who cares who has the shiniest new building? It's about education and that was given up years ago by the teachers unions looking out for their interests over the students.
 

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Let's not forget this is high school. What's a HS diploma get you anyways? A job at Burger King? With a high enough GPA and a student loan that they hand out like lollipops, you can get into just about any college from high school. I know ISU isn't real particular on who they allow in, considering where they recruit from.
 
sycamore tuff said:
Is this a big dick contest? Who cares who has the shiniest new building? It's about education and that was given up years ago by the teachers unions looking out for their interests over the students.
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It's about keeping up with times and providing a positive education space for the community. Education can be affected by building environment. What a community can provide in terms of education can lead to more opportunities for the community. Do you think state leaders making decisions and businesses exploring moving into community look at the education systems the community has to offer before making decisions to invest in a community?

Also student retention and keeping kids in their community's school district so they don't have to leave for better education/opportunities to learn.

This is way more about education but athletics are tied to it.
 
You all sound really butthurt. The citizens of the county voted in a landslide to NOT rebuild or do any sweeping renovations to the schools. A lot of you are putting in input and you don't even live in the area at all. Most of the citizens of the Wabash Valley region want this to remain a low tax and low cost of living area. We don't give a crap how Indianapolis or Dallas, Texas do things. I wouldn't ever live anywhere near those places.
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
You all sound really butthurt. The citizens of the county voted in a landslide to NOT rebuild or do any sweeping renovations to the schools. A lot of you are putting in input and you don't even live in the area at all. Most of the citizens of the Wabash Valley region want this to remain a low tax and low cost of living area. We don't give a crap how Indianapolis or Dallas, Texas do things. I wouldn't ever live anywhere near those places.
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First, I don’t give a shit about your opinion either. The feeling is mutual. I have very little interest in this discussion since I no longer live in Terre Haute and my kids don’t go to.Vigo Co. schools, but added my two cents as food for thought. I don’t need to be catching strays from your ass just because I gave an alternative perspective. I’m well fucking aware Dallas is different than Terre Haute.

Lastly, my fucking family settled in the Wabash Valley before 1896, long before 1996 when I assume you were born. I own land in Covington and Perrysville, and I pay my fair share of “Wabash Valley” property taxes in both. In fact, I’m just about 100% certain I pay more in Indiana property taxes than you do.

Eat shit.
 

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BrokerZ said:
First, I don’t give a shit about your opinion either. The feeling is mutual. I have very little interest in this discussion since I no longer live in Terre Haute and my kids don’t go to.Vigo Co. schools, but added my two cents as food for thought. I don’t need to be catching strays from your ass just because I gave an alternative perspective. I’m well fucking aware Dallas is different than Terre Haute.

Lastly, my fucking family settled in the Wabash Valley before 1896, long before 1996 when I assume you were born. I own land in Covington and Perrysville, and I pay my fair share of “Wabash Valley” property taxes in both. In fact, I’m just about 100% certain I pay more in Indiana property taxes than you do.

Eat shit.
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Classy
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
Apparently Marcus Freeman who coached his team to the national title game thinks differently.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880632934849495113
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You’re talking to the wrong guy about multi-sport athletics bud… I just don’t know what to tell you. I’m not the guy. Because I’m fully in support of it - but some guys have that dog in them and others don’t. For the one’s that don’t focus your efforts on a single sport and your outcomes are going to be better.

You don’t know me dude - so please don’t throw some Marcus Freeman tweet my way and think I’m going to be impressed.
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
You’re talking to the wrong guy about multi-sport athletics bud… I just don’t know what to tell you. I’m not the guy. Because I’m fully in support of it - but some guys have that dog in them and others don’t. For the one’s that don’t focus your efforts on a single sport and your outcomes are going to be better.

You don’t know me dude - so please don’t throw some Marcus Freeman tweet my way and think I’m going to be impressed.
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Why does anyone give two shits about what Markus Freeman thinks?

Lost the game, out coached, players out played
 

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When you guys had Danny T leading the way he could build it all AND get concert Tix, a couple nice dinners and a ham or two for the board members!😆😆

Ya don’t know a good thing when ya have it!😂
 
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Some stats from the Indiana Department of Education. I don't know the basis for these data. Obviously, there are a lot more students in each type of school. Perhaps this is a statistical sample. I shall keep looking.

YOU DO HAVE A POINT AS MANY OF THE ENTRIES FOR WHAT I ASSUME ARE CHARTER SCHOOLS OR PERHAPS HOME-SCHOOLING PROGRAMS ARE ABYSMAL. BUT THE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS ARE NOT IN THAT FAILING GROUP.

Also, B sorry that I couldn't figure out how to delete all of those extra rows. Maybe someone can clean that up.

School DemographicIREAD PASS N*IREAD TEST NIREAD Pass %
Public60,90474,73081.5%
Nonpublic6,6287,16292.5%
Total67,53281,89282.5%

2023-2024
StatewideELA
Below Proficiency		ELA
Approaching Proficiency		ELA
At Proficiency		ELA
Above Proficiency		ELA
Total
Proficient		ELA
Total
Tested		ELA
Proficient
%
Grade 332549176651917012395315658177938.6%
Grade 429878183831889915733346328289341.8%
Grade 530882176092191610835327518124240.3%
Grade 629650189572018313768339518255841.1%
Grade 726396214212038913945343348215141.8%
Grade 827039205861933716039353768300142.6%
Grand Total1763941146211198948271520260949362441.0%

By corporation: Clay:
50.1%
Indianapolis Public:
20.7%
South Vermillion:
28.8%
Vigo:
31.7%
Invent Learning Hub - 16.4%
PLA at George H Fisher School 93 - 17.4%
Dynamic Minds Academy - 6.5%
Phalen Leadership Academy at Francis Scott Key School 103 - 8.4%
GEO Next Generation Academy - 8.1%
The PATH School - 14%
Phalen Virtual Leadership Academy - 8.8
Paramount School of Excellence South Bend 22.6
Paramount School of Excellence Lafayette - 37.5
Success Academy at Boys and Girls Club 10
Otwell Miller Academy 22.4
Indiana Connections Career Academy 35.1
Avondale Meadows Middle School 19.1
Premier Arts Academy 26.7
James & Rosemary Phalen Leadership Academy Middle School 10.1
The Genius School 16.9
Paramount Cottage Home
Allegiant Preparatory Academy
pilotED Schools
Matchbook Learning
Hoosier College and Career Academy
Adelante Schools
Circle City Prep Charter School
Paramount Englewood
Rooted School Indianapolis
Timothy L. Johnson Academy Middle
Archdiocese of Indianapolis 60.3
Diocese of Gary 54.7 THAT HAS TO BE A CHALLENGING AREA
Diocese of Lafayette Catholic Sch 64.0
Diocese of Evansville 68.6
Diocese of Fort Wayne - South Bend 54.6
Lutheran Schools of Indiana 52.6
The Oaks Academy 64.3
Charter School of the Dunes
Community Montessori Inc
Options Charter Schools
Irvington Community School
Timothy L Johnson Academy
Enlace Academy
Christel House Academy South
Christel House Academy West
KIPP Indy College Prep Middle
KIPP Indy Unite Elementary
Tindley Genesis Academy
Tindley Summit Academy
Charles A Tindley Accelerated Sch
Thea Bowman Leadership Academy
SE Neighborhood Sch of Excellence
Joshua Academy
Indiana Agriculture and Technology
Paramount Online Academy
Promise Prep
Indy Steam Academy
Gary Lighthouse Charter School
Lawrence County Independent Schools
The Nature School of Central Indiana
Herron Preparatory Academy
21st Century Charter Sch of Gary
East Chicago Urban Enterprise Academy
Victory College Prep
East Chicago Lighthouse Charter
IN Sch for the Blind & Vis Imprd
Indiana School For The Deaf
Andrew J Brown Academy
Burris Laboratory School
Avondale Meadows Academy
Geist Montessori Academy
Paramount Brookside
Aspire Charter Academy
Renaissance Academy Charter School
Hammond Academy of Science & Tech
Springville Community Academy
Canaan Community Academy
Inspire Academy - A Sch of Inquiry
Liberty Grove Schools
Smith Academy for Excellence
IN Math & Science Academy
Anderson Preparatory Academy
Monarca Academy
The Bloomington Project School
Discovery Charter School
Rock Creek Community Academy
IN Math & Science Academy - North
Indiana Connections Academy
Damar Charter Academy
Phalen Leadership Academy - IN Inc
Vision Academy
Dugger Union Community School Corp
Phalen Leadership Academy at Louis B Russell School 48
Mays Community Academy
Success Academy Primary School
Career Academy Middle School
ACE Preparatory Academy
Global Preparatory Academy
Steel City Academy
Seven Oaks Classical School
Higher Institute of Arts & Tech
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
Bottom line is North and South are way too big. If they ever want to build a new school in Vigo County then maybe they should consider building one out east somewhere and have 4 high schools rather than 3. Consolidation may save some money, but it is awful for the kids that get shoved into those schools. It's honestly pretty awful for the athletics too. Instead of being able to play in a regional conference, they have to go play Bloomington, Indianapolis, and Columbus schools. North and South both got kicked out of the MIC if I remember correctly because the Indy schools were tired of making trips way out west to Terre Haute. The WIC won't invite them because they're too big.

I went to North my Freshman year and I did alright there, but I finally convinced my parents to let me go to Riverton Parke my last three years and it was one of the best thing that ever happened to me. (I personally wanted to go straight to RP after Otter Creek.) My Freshman class at North was 686, while Riverton Parke had 400 kids in the entire school including the Junior High wing. My graduating class there had 70. As a matter of fact I think my high school was a couple hundred smaller than Other Creek even though it had 6 grades in the school.

In hindsight if I could do it all over I would have went to Rosedale in elementary, and then RP 7th-12th. If I ever have kids they will not be attending any school in the VCSC system east of the river, so it's pretty easy to see why the people that can are pulling their kids from North and South and sending them to smaller schools in surrounding areas.
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Yeah, it's why the largest schools in the state always have terrible athletic teams and terrible academic outcomes.


...checks notes...
 
isubird33 said:
Yeah, it's why the largest schools in the state always have terrible athletic teams and terrible academic outcomes.


...checks notes...
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I personally don't care about how good a school's athletics are. What doesn't make sense is sending high school kids all over the state of Indiana just to play some games. I really don't care how big North or South are other than I have no interest as a taxpayer in building new schools or a mega school. I think it would have been better if Terre Haute had not consolidated into North and South 50 years ago and still had 3 or 4 different smaller schools, not counting West Vigo. To me 1000 or less students in a high school is the best for everyone involved, as teachers and students sort of know everyone in the school and can keep a better eye on what's going on. Large schools are more prone to violent crimes, such as shootings, than smaller schools.

www.lcsun-news.com

To reduce school violence, build smaller schools

Serious violent crimes – including attacks with weapons – occur far more frequently at schools enrolling more than 1,000 students than smaller schools.
www.lcsun-news.com

The academics are kind of whatever. HS diplomas are barely worth the piece of paper they are printed on these days and I couldn't even tell you where mine is at. If you are in HS and want to go to college, then you should absolutely be trying to get good grades to prepare yourself for college and to possibly get scholarships, but for the half or so that don't enroll into college no one really cares what your GPA was or where you finished in your class. Most of the stuff you learn in school is completely useless anyways.

The state sets a curriculum for each grade that all of the public schools all have to follow. Some teachers are better than others, but whether a student does well in a class or not is mostly on the student's willingness to put in the effort to succeed, not the building itself. Smaller classroom sizes are certainly better though, but a school of 1500 or 500 could have similar classroom sizes depending on how many teachers there are.
 

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Interesting to look at the history of Champions in all sports from the IHSAA's past

State Champions from Terre Haute (All Sports)...4 total since records have been kept...keep in mind that in football, there wasn't a tournament to crown a champion for decades...just like college football, it was done via polls.

https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/State Championship History.pdf


Terre Haute South (2)
Girls B-ball 2001-2002
Girls Tennis 2000-2001

Terre Haute North (2)
Baseball 1972-74
Cross Country 1973-74
 
CoachShipp said:
Interesting to look at the history of Champions in all sports from the IHSAA's past

State Champions from Terre Haute (All Sports)...4 total since records have been kept...keep in mind that in football, there wasn't a tournament to crown a champion for decades...just like college football, it was done via polls.

https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/State Championship History.pdf


Terre Haute South (2)
Girls B-ball 2001-2002
Girls Tennis 2000-2001

Terre Haute North (2)
Baseball 1972-74
Cross Country 1973-74
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The overlap in success is certainly interesting - rising tide lifts all ship.
 
True...Success can breed success. Also a possibility that those teams were sharing a few athletes.

I was shocked to see only FOUR state champions across all sports from Terre Haute in the history of the IHSAA.
 
No Terre Haute school has ever won the state championship in boys basketball, but there were some runner ups.
1922 Garfield
1947 Garfield
1953 Gerstmeyer
1978 South

Other local schools:
Attica won state in 2001. Single-class basketball apparently ended after the 1996-97 season. The rest of the local schools mentioned below were runner ups.
1998 Bloomfield
2000 Union Dugger
2012 Rockville
2013 Linton
2019 Linton
2021 Parke Heritage (Rockville)
2023 Linton
 
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