The Decline of Terre Haute High School Athletics

[Bobbyk60]

Something happened that was bad?

Meant same thing

 

[True Blue]

TH North just won regionals.

 

[sycamore tuff]

TH North just won regionals.

Maybe it's the decline of highschool athletics in general. Congratulations to them. They apparently improved throughout the season.

 

[True Blue]

Maybe it's the decline of highschool athletics in general. Congratulations to them. They apparently improved throughout the season.

They’re 21-5 now so a lot of people, myself included, thought they weren’t very good because they don’t really blow anyone out. I also didn’t realize that they return 6 of their top 7 next year

 

[Westbadenboy]

Unless those kids enter the portal

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Unless those kids enter the portal

Just curious, you realize in Indiana it’s basically that way now right?

I think what you will see for the next few years is - a bunch of the top football talent heading to Terre Haute South and a bunch of the top basketball talent heading to North.

 

[hans1950]

I think I liked it better when you had to lie to change schools for athletic reasons...

 

[Greeley]

I think I liked it better when you had to lie to change schools for athletic reasons...

I used to play at Franklin Park, I believe it was called. Boozer Field had some great courts. Indoors was the old gym at the lab school. Decartsta Webster and Bird were known to get in games at the old arena by Lincoln quad. No pickup games were as good as Indianapolis at Dearborn, Fulton, Brookside, Centenial, Lockefield and the old Zoo. Other pickup spots were the city park in Martinsville, Coatesville.

 

[DyedBlue]

How much of the 'decline of TH HS Athletics" has to do with the advent of Class Sports???

Back in the day, meaning until 1997-98, the two TH high schools never had to play a school, other than the other TH School, that was even half of their enrollment until they reached the basketball semi-state.

Seldom did an Indy metro team win the single-class tournament because they whittled themselves down to one representative in the final four.

Now the Indy metro dominates.

At the regional I attended in Lebanon, University HS, a charter school in Carmel costing $19-23K/year to attend and playing in Class 2A beat a Triton Central team from outside of Shelbyville by a score of 44-43. It was a GREAT game: well played with very few turnovers, patience, good shooting and very few fouls.

In game 2, Indianapolis Crispus Attucks held off a Northview rally in the 4th quarter and pulled away at the free throw line to win 57-46. Attucks has 6'9" Desmon Briscoe who is heading to Iowa PLUS a fast and talented array of players. It was a much faster, more physical game but more prone to missed shots and turnovers by both teams. Like it or not, the skill level was very high and the intensity of both sides was ferocious. Attucks may not win the Class 3A title, but it is capable of doing so and it won't be an upset. It did beat Indy Cathedral (#1 in 3A and #2 overall in Indiana) in the sectional.

This year for TH North to reach the semi-state it has had to beat at least three other 4A enrollment schools which is something the TH schools never had to do until after the 97 season. Perhaps those 'glory days' would look a lot different if TH North had to play Indy metro & other 4A schools in the sectionals prior to 1997. All one needs to do is look at the banners in the school gyms and it is easy to notice that the sectional and regional winning years almost disappear after 1997.

 

[True Blue]

How much of the 'decline of TH HS Athletics" has to do with the advent of Class Sports???

Back in the day, meaning until 1997-98, the two TH high schools never had to play a school, other than the other TH School, that was even half of their enrollment until they reached the basketball semi-state.

Seldom did an Indy metro team win the single-class tournament because they whittled themselves down to one representative in the final four.

Now the Indy metro dominates.

At the regional I attended in Lebanon, University HS, a charter school in Carmel costing $19-23K/year to attend and playing in Class 2A beat a Triton Central team from outside of Shelbyville by a score of 44-43. It was a GREAT game: well played with very few turnovers, patience, good shooting and very few fouls.

In game 2, Indianapolis Crispus Attucks held off a Northview rally in the 4th quarter and pulled away at the free throw line to win 57-46. Attucks has 6'9" Desmon Briscoe who is heading to Iowa PLUS a fast and talented array of players. It was a much faster, more physical game but more prone to missed shots and turnovers by both teams. Like it or not, the skill level was very high and the intensity of both sides was ferocious. Attucks may not win the Class 3A title, but it is capable of doing so and it won't be an upset. It did beat Indy Cathedral (#1 in 3A and #2 overall in Indiana) in the sectional.

This year for TH North to reach the semi-state it has had to beat at least three other 4A enrollment schools which is something the TH schools never had to do until after the 97 season. Perhaps those 'glory days' would look a lot different if TH North had to play Indy metro & other 4A schools in the sectionals prior to 1997. All one needs to do is look at the banners in the school gyms and it is easy to notice that the sectional and regional winning years almost disappear after 1997.

The biggest issues to me is there are Indy area schools that have tripled in size and the talent level in Terre Haute is not what it used to be. That can’t be debated. THS had what 3-4 D-1 players in their teams in the 70’s. The 88-89 south team was ranked #1 most of the year and all 5 starters played college basketball (except Tony McGee who played in the NFL). 91 South had Brian Evan’s and Steve Hart, Even South in I think it was 05 with Armon Bassett was maybe the 2nd best team in the state and could have had Oden. They don’t get that talent level anymore. Add that to Plainfield, Brownsburg, Carmel, Westfield, Fishers and many more having exploded in enrollment. It’s probably going to be Fishers who wins it again this year. Also, this is not just a Terre Haute issue. The big Evansville schools have won nothing

 

[CoachShipp]

Not sure if you're talking recent history with Evansville schools or history overall of IHSAA. Evansville only has one school with an enrollment of 1600+...all others are below that, both parochial and public. You're correct in that the Terre Haute and Evansville schools of 1400-1600 are, in general, going to struggle to match the athletes to choose from schools of 3-5000.

Evansville public schools have won 10 state titles in all sports just since 2ooo. Terre Haute 4 total in the history of the IHSAA. The parochial's do draw a significant number of great athletes which have helped them have their share of success....49 state championships between Mater Dei and Memorial. Add up all sports all time, and include football state championships in football in the era before the state tournament, and Evansville has roughly a combined 76 state championships...25 by Evansville public schools. So, while they're not competing in the largest classes in football, (but are in several other sports), they're doing ok for themselves. Evansville (117,000) proper is roughly twice the size of Terre Haute (58000). County wise Vanderburgh County is about 180,000 to Vigo Co. 106,000.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I would just like to add that I think some help is on the way… Small wins, but wins nonetheless.

- VCSC added dedicated strength and conditioning coaches at all 3 high schools.

- VCSC adding a Health / Strength Coordinator position at the Admin level. The title/roles and responsibilities ultimately I believe will have this position be over all sports and athletic directors. Although maybe not initially.

- VCSC pushed really hard to get Barrett from SVHS to THS. They upped the pay significantly and went out and recruited him. When he told them no, they went back and continued to push. This is a definite change in mindset and philosophy.

- Wabash Valley Athletic Association netted $115k in first year fundraiser at the Convention Center 3 weeks ago. An extraordinary accomplishment in TH for a first year event.

- WVAA & VCSC working on a solution around youth football which is very poorly operated right now by the Boys and Girls Club. Can’t really say what will be done at this time - just know they are working on a solution.

That’s just a quick list that I could come up with at 5:30 this morning before my first and only cup of coffee for the day. It’s easy to sit back and talk about the problems - talk about the good ole’ days. The real work is in the solutions and what we are going to do to fix it - better yet talk is cheap, what are some things actually being done! Hope this gives some of you reason for optimism - if you read the above list and have a negative reaction to any of it, you’re likely part of the problem.

 

[True Blue]

Not sure if you're talking recent history with Evansville schools or history overall of IHSAA. Evansville only has one school with an enrollment of 1600+...all others are below that, both parochial and public. You're correct in that the Terre Haute and Evansville schools of 1400-1600 are, in general, going to struggle to match the athletes to choose from schools of 3-5000.

Evansville public schools have won 10 state titles in all sports just since 2ooo. Terre Haute 4 total in the history of the IHSAA. The parochial's do draw a significant number of great athletes which have helped them have their share of success....49 state championships between Mater Dei and Memorial. Add up all sports all time, and include football state championships in football in the era before the state tournament, and Evansville has roughly a combined 76 state championships...25 by Evansville public schools. So, while they're not competing in the largest classes in football, (but are in several other sports), they're doing ok for themselves. Evansville (117,000) proper is roughly twice the size of Terre Haute (58000). County wise Vanderburgh County is about 180,000 to Vigo Co. 106,000.

Im only talking 4A basketball in this discussion. Terre Haute has done ok in some other sports. North had a softball runner up, South has a tennis state championship and a girls basketball state championship….Other than Reitz having 1 run, I can’t think of any 4A Evansville teams doing much either. I could be wrong. Terre Haute and Evansville are pretty good at baseball. North made 2 baseball state championship games a few years ago. Terre Haute has never been real good at football.

 

[4Q_iu]

Im only talking 4A basketball in this discussion. Terre Haute has done ok in some other sports. North had a softball runner up, South has a tennis state championship and a girls basketball state championship….Other than Reitz having 1 run, I can’t think of any 4A Evansville teams doing much either. I could be wrong. Terre Haute and Evansville are pretty good at baseball. North made 2 baseball state championship games a few years ago. Terre Haute has never been real good at football.

And remember, even at the IHSAA level, nobody cares about HS sports unless it's football, "m"bb and some "w"bb...