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[December 17, 2022] Indiana State (9-2) at Duquesne (7-3)
- Thread starter Jason Svoboda
- Start date
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SycamoreBlue3209
The Newsom Level
How can anyone come on here and say Cooper has gone backwards? Sure, I wish he would shoot more than pump fake, but he’s been out about 4 weeks and leads the team in minutes and puts up 19 pts on 67% from the floor and 6-6 from the line.
Let’s look elsewhere…
Let’s look elsewhere…
Ratings are not always accurate.
EvilleSycamore
The All-MVC Level
I blame it on Miller. Oh wait that was last game never mind carry on…. lol!
As long as HCJS addresses the attitude problems, get them fixed and considers removing a couple from the normal rotation going into full Valley schedule we are going to be fine. I haven’t seen much out of Valley competition to get red ass’d over.The good news is we’ve lost three games by a total of 11 points, two on the road, and one on a neutral site, and we’re still leading the Valley standings, with one more out of conference game at home, which I’m confident we’ll win. Then we play Evansville at home, which should be a 15+ blowout for us. We have two of the weaker teams in Valparaiso and Illinois State on the road, which we should win too. Then two home games against a middling UIC team and a Southern Illinois team which we beat on the road in a tough place to play. We then play on the road against Missouri State, which I consider a 60/40 split for a way for us, then a home game against a pretty good Bradley team at home which should be a win for us, then we face a Murray State team on the road where they could be undefeated or in a tie with Drake for 2nd place.
I‘m glad we hit this two game slid in the middle of December rather than the middle of January, because those games mean so much more than OOC games do. We weren’t getting a bid to the Tournament unless we win the Conference Tourney anyway, so these games are meaningless for the most part.
I’d be way more concerned if we had been blown out in these two games, but really, a few calls go our way, and we win. A team like Drake got blown out by 30 by Richmond. Every good team faces these losing streaks, I’ll start worrying if we lose home games to shitty teams. Most years we wouldve been lucky to win 1 out these 4 road games.
I’m watching Drake against SLU right now hope they win. Would be nice to have a team get a bid from the Valley without having to win the conference tournament - the Richmond loss by that margin may have fucked them already though. But a win against SLU would be cancel that out.
I‘m glad we hit this two game slid in the middle of December rather than the middle of January, because those games mean so much more than OOC games do. We weren’t getting a bid to the Tournament unless we win the Conference Tourney anyway, so these games are meaningless for the most part.
I’d be way more concerned if we had been blown out in these two games, but really, a few calls go our way, and we win. A team like Drake got blown out by 30 by Richmond. Every good team faces these losing streaks, I’ll start worrying if we lose home games to shitty teams. Most years we wouldve been lucky to win 1 out these 4 road games.
I’m watching Drake against SLU right now hope they win. Would be nice to have a team get a bid from the Valley without having to win the conference tournament - the Richmond loss by that margin may have fucked them already though. But a win against SLU would be cancel that out.
And I’m sick of getting technical fouls for our players celebrating good plays. I see games all the time in bigger conferences where players do worse “Taunts” and get away with it. I feel like the referees for out games are of the state of mind that any exuberance is taunting, and it feels like the refs see the techs we get and target those guys for any little thing they do. And I’m suspect that part of it is their skin color and refs that are old and white.
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Alright I can’t believe I’m going to even take the time to address this but I will… So you think that the technical fouls are a result of the players skin color and the fact that the refs are “old and white”?! It took you all of 11 posts to claim we’re getting a bad whistle as the result of racism. Wonderful. Where do we go from here with this conversation.
Simply put - they are definitely targeting those guys. The Henry drew the technical foul yesterday as he sort of walked toward the guy it seemed. I was okay with the double T in that instance but the other party was definitely the more deserving of the two.
The Voss T seemed pretty unnecessary based on what I saw - he didn’t stand over anyone, didn’t point at anyone, didn’t appear to say anything at all. But you’re up 14 at that point I believe - going to the line to make it 15 and they’ve got a scouting report on him. So they decided to get him under control early. Based on what I saw completely unwarranted.
But it’s a quantum leap for me to suspect it was angry old white men looking to assess technical fouls to black kids. Considering college basketball is probably comprised of around 70% African American that would be a lot of technical fouls… Can you imagine the conversation before the game “I’m going to show them kids who’s boss today…” yeah that sounds pretty ridiculous because it is.
Now moving on from that… yesh.
The story is about the lack of discipline this team has. JS lack of control of the game, rotations, adjustments and anything that resembles a defensive game plan. We’ve allowed 92 and 88 points in back-to-back games. Completely inept and inexcusable. Most people here will not like to hear this - because he’s been pretty fun to watch on offense but Robbie Buckets has been a complete liability on defense the past two games. Tre Williams abused him yesterday - 8/9 shooting that’s not going to get it done vs anyone especially a former player out for blood.
And lastly ball security has once again been an issue. I really think this team plays a lot more under control when the game is slowed down - we operate half court offense. We seem to get good shots, share the ball better and just generally be more under control. Our transition defense is putrid… Especially so when we start a track meet - we completely melt down when we have to start identifying people to guard in transition. Half the reason is - (insert name) went up for a shot - missed it - and is pleading with the official rather than getting back or slowly/dramatically picking themself of the floor. We have so many issues under the hood if you will - it’s not even funny. I don’t care that we’re 9-3 and 2-0 in the conference. The last two performances were pathetic - call it like it is.
The Dukes had 16 points with under 8 to play in the first half. In the final 27 minutes of the game they scored 76 points. They didn’t get to double figures until the 11:00 minute mark of the first half. So we played 10 mins of solid defense and then we rolled over. Your record doesn’t matter because you’re starting to getting exposed - they’re starting to show who they really are as a team. Unless things change drastically this stuff will all come up again in our next loss I assure you.
The story is about the lack of discipline this team has. JS lack of control of the game, rotations, adjustments and anything that resembles a defensive game plan. We’ve allowed 92 and 88 points in back-to-back games. Completely inept and inexcusable. Most people here will not like to hear this - because he’s been pretty fun to watch on offense but Robbie Buckets has been a complete liability on defense the past two games. Tre Williams abused him yesterday - 8/9 shooting that’s not going to get it done vs anyone especially a former player out for blood.
And lastly ball security has once again been an issue. I really think this team plays a lot more under control when the game is slowed down - we operate half court offense. We seem to get good shots, share the ball better and just generally be more under control. Our transition defense is putrid… Especially so when we start a track meet - we completely melt down when we have to start identifying people to guard in transition. Half the reason is - (insert name) went up for a shot - missed it - and is pleading with the official rather than getting back or slowly/dramatically picking themself of the floor. We have so many issues under the hood if you will - it’s not even funny. I don’t care that we’re 9-3 and 2-0 in the conference. The last two performances were pathetic - call it like it is.
The Dukes had 16 points with under 8 to play in the first half. In the final 27 minutes of the game they scored 76 points. They didn’t get to double figures until the 11:00 minute mark of the first half. So we played 10 mins of solid defense and then we rolled over. Your record doesn’t matter because you’re starting to getting exposed - they’re starting to show who they really are as a team. Unless things change drastically this stuff will all come up again in our next loss I assure you.
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The defensive end is where i was most concerned about Avila. He has lots of skill on the offensive end, way ahead of where most true freshman bigs are, but he looks like a true freshman on defense. He has a slow first step, has very limited strength and poor defensive positioning. Those things will get better with time, but if you want his offensive ability on the court you have to know defense will be questionable this year. It will really get exposed against a talented big with good foot work....like a Reink Mast.
FanSinceArenaDays
The Varsity Level
Here we go ...agree agree agree .... in addition ISU 73-72 5:14 left and then according to ESPN play-by-play Kailex miss layup,Kailex miss layup,Cooper TO,Cooper TO,Cooper miss 3,C.Henry miss layup,Voss miss3,Kailex miss3,Julian miss layup,Kailex miss layup...... yes we scored a few in that last 5:14 but the aforementioned were all negative plays in that same stretch where winners have to show to win. We still lead the Valley and could make a run for the roses but not the way they are responding at the moment be it home or away.
EvilleSycamore
The All-MVC Level
Totally agree. I have been yelling for 3 games Robbie can not play defense against a post up player!!! After the last three games he has been totally exposed and every team will now post him up on the block and have fun with him. This is a freshman issue wanting to play D like in HS where he was taller and stronger than the rest and could use it to alter the shot or hide poor footwork. Those days are gone in college. Second, we have a meaningless game against a terrible team ( NIU)coming up. HCJS should consider an in their face discussion with Voss & Henry and them setting that game we have enough to win that ONE game without them.. The Bledson experiment has gone on for a year and a half now. It’s time to cut bait and put him on the end of the bench. Hobbs for as much as we bitch, brings as much if not more to the game as Bledson. Will we be fine? Yes! We have potentially 8 strong piece to rely on in Valley play, time to use them to continue our valley run. As SSOM has been saying, only games that matter are the four days of play in St Louis. A stellar season record will only get us in the third tier tournament that is all won’t matter for the NCAA or even the NIT for that matter at the end of the season.
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Agree with this 100%... these officials talk and have "scouting reports" of their own. After a scrum on a loose ball (where they called a bizarre foul on us) right in front of Duquesne bench, one of their players came off the bench and taunted our player within a second of the whistle with no call. No call...Voss reputation precedes him, which is a shame....just zip it and play!
Listened to the game yesterday...very frustrating way to lose. Felt like we beat ourselves, had a ton of opportunities to finish them and made multiple mental & physical mistakes to keep them in (they typically hit a 3 after our blown opportunity).
Watched the game this morning just to see what happened. For the life of me I don't understand what Henry or Voss did to warrant those techs. Not only did the Voss tech really take away our momentum. It took him out of the game where he looked like he was going to go for 25+. I really don't get how Henry can get shoved in the face/neck and get a Tech thrown on him.
Watched the game this morning just to see what happened. For the life of me I don't understand what Henry or Voss did to warrant those techs. Not only did the Voss tech really take away our momentum. It took him out of the game where he looked like he was going to go for 25+. I really don't get how Henry can get shoved in the face/neck and get a Tech thrown on him.
n/a
SycamoreBlue3209
The Newsom Level
Not only should Henry have not got whistled for a T. The ref called the T on Cam before the Duke player.
Anytime you shove someone if the neck after a whistle you should be ejected from the game. If you make an unnecessary play to someone’s neck during play, they can remove you with flagrant 2. What happens when you do it after the play?Officials reviewed this play too and allowed that guy to remain in the game.
For the record, if Cam shoved that guy the same way in the chest/neck, I would expect Cam to be ejected.
FanSinceArenaDays
The Varsity Level
18 pages here - Sycamore fans care & are all willing to give advice, some good some ? Come on Sycamores, heads up and keep getting better. Still undefeated in conference play.
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Racial bias exist in all walks of life, a black referee is also in the same range of calling fouls on white players more than black players as a white referee is the opposite. But 77 percent of referees are white, while 6 percent are black. This is just an implicit bias, rather than ideological driven consciously. All humans have implicit racial biases. And all kinds of implicit biases in general.
And there are even biases in the NHL that English players get penalized the most by French and American refs.
Here’s a peer reviewed study/paper that showed that racial bias existed in the NBA that came out in 2007. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w13206/w13206.pdf I’m sure there are quite a few biases that can’t be studied due to humans having strange biases that aren’t black and white.
Bummer loss. I'm already looking past NIU to be 10-3 headed back into the conference slate.
Is that the same "highly astute" study by the NHL that found that 100% of it's players are male??
I was HORRIFIED to learn that a similar study of the MLB, NBA, NFL and MLS would find that same is true of THEIR misogynistic leagues, teams... that there are NO WOMEN players in ANY of those leagues!!!
That's true but I believe it is a non-issue. Even animals have bias. It's part of nature and always will be.
It's a waste of money to study it, like a waste of money to pretend there is change in the climate.