Horizon League will expand, IPFW to announce move Tuesday

[ISUCC]

You might be right, but if either of those two end up in the Horizon you can bet it will be due to several other schools saying no first. They may have to settle for IUPUI.

it'll be interesting to say the least, NKU doesn't look like too bad of a fit for the HL, they're somewhat close to Wright State. It shouldn't add flights for any HL schools either. It looks like UW-Green Bay and UW-Milwaukee would be the furthest schools away from NKU.

I can not see them adding Belmont and Murray State either. I think they really like what they have in the OVC. So add UNK, IUPUI, and IPFW and you're at 12 teams.

If UNK leaves the A-Sun, that leaves the A-Sun at 7 teams also.

 

[bent20]

Step down and the funding goes down in proportion, it won't make us better.

Honestly, funding can't go down much more. We're already far below what other conference schools pay their coaches and spend on their facilities. Cut it more and we won't be able to afford gas to send our teams anywhere or turn on the lights at the stadiums.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Honestly, funding can't go down much more. We're already far below what other conference schools pay their coaches and spend on their facilities. Cut it more and we won't be able to afford gas to send our teams anywhere or turn on the lights at the stadiums.

Oh, yes it can go down. You doubt the ability of ISU to do things on the cheap? Come now, you've been around long enough to know how this place works...

 

[nwi stater]

Gee, would we be having this discussion if we would have won a couple games?

 

[4Q_iu]

I was wondering when someone would say this. Realistically, if we dropped football, that money would just disappear. No sport would get more money. It's a nice thought, but it's very naive, and doesn't take into account other factors.

Listen up people - nobody gets more money if we drop football. It's just not going to happen.

Naïve? I'll reserve what you can do. Do I WANT to drop football? No. Is it possible in the next 5-10 years we're forced to b/c of $$ ? Never say never.

BUT since YOU'RE 'brilliant' Spell out the factors.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I'll add a controversial yet simple idea...

drop football and spend those $$$ on increasing the MBB and baseball recruiting, travel, operating budgets.

It'll never happen but it makes the 'most sense.'

I was wondering when someone would say this. Realistically, if we dropped football, that money would just disappear. No sport would get more money. It's a nice thought, but it's very naive, and doesn't take into account other factors.

Listen up people - nobody gets more money if we drop football. It's just not going to happen.

Naïve? I'll reserve what you can do. Do I WANT to drop football? No. Is it possible in the next 5-10 years we're forced to b/c of $$ ? Never say never.

BUT since YOU'RE 'brilliant' Spell out the factors.

Well, someone's touchy today. Sheesh, take a valium and relax...

The only reason that ISU would drop football would be to plug a budget deficit in the athletic department. That being the case, the money spent on football wouldn't be going to any other sport, it would simply reduce, or eliminate, that deficit. ISU will never drop football just to spend that money on other sports. That just ain't gonna happen. Sorry if that offends you, but it's the simple truth of the situation.

For the record, I don't see ISU dropping football any time soon. But if they did, it would be to save money, not to redistribute it.

 

[4Q_iu]

Well, someone's touchy today. Sheesh, take a valium and relax...

The only reason that ISU would drop football would be to plug a budget deficit in the athletic department. That being the case, the money spent on football wouldn't be going to any other sport, it would simply reduce, or eliminate, that deficit. ISU will never drop football just to spend that money on other sports. That just ain't gonna happen. Sorry if that offends you, but it's the simple truth of the situation.

For the record, I don't see ISU dropping football any time soon. But if they did, it would be to save money, not to redistribute it.

So... no factors... just your opinion....

Is the Athl Dept swimming in $$$$ ?

Highly, HIGHLY doubtful

Could we drop football, spend more on other sports and STILL be money ahead?

Highly likely.

WILL we? Unknown

if we WERE to move to the Horizon, (shudder); it would be LOGICAL to move the football team to the Pioneer League (no scholie) build a "great HS football field" and move on. Or just drop football, like all but two of the HL members...

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Since when does one step down to become better? That doesn't work.

I understand your theory, but IMO... when you step onto a level playing field you have more room for success and can elevate your program.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Valley but I don't like the unlevel playing field. When the Valley was originally formed, I'm pretty sure every school had a football team. Now you have half of the "main" conference that are solely basketball schools that either don't have football at all or have non scholarship football: Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola and Wichita State. On the football side of things, you had Viverto go out and get schools that "specialize" in football or have strong football spending: Western Illinois, Youngstown State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State and South Dakota. In today's sports landscape where money is critical for facilities, buy games, buying coaches and players, it is a bad situation for us. Yes, we can still compete but you end up with what we've seen the last 10 years since college sports really went nutso financial.

Athletic Expenses (2013)

134 - Wichita State - $22.67m
146 - Southern Illinois - $21.22m
163 - Illinois State - $19.57m
195 - Drake - $16.12m
200 - Missouri State - $15.13m
207 - Northern Iowa - $14.49m
217 - Eastern Illinois - $13.92m
220 - Bradley - $13.65m
232 - Tennessee State - $12.71m
235 - Jacksonville State - $12.64m
236 - Loyola - $12.51m
256 - Eastern Kentucky - $11.86m
258 - Murray State - $11.79m
261 - Indiana State - $11.69m
268 - Tennessee Tech - $11.5m
280 - Belmont - $11.06m
295 - Evansville - $10.46m
304 - Southeast Missouri - $9.95m
307 - Austin Peay - $9.70m
312 - Tennessee-Martin - $9.29m
324 - Morehead State - $8.15m
329 - SIU Edwardsville - $7.55m

Basketball Expenses (2013)

62 - Wichita State - $5.37m
91 - Bradley - $3.81m
122 - Drake - $2.56m
132 - Northern Iowa - $2.40m
133 - Illinois State - $2.39m
138 - Loyola - $2.36m
141 - Evansville - $2.25m
151 - Missouri State - $2.11m
191 - Indiana State - $1.7m
225 - Southern Illinois - $1.48m

Bolded teams either have non-scholarship football or no football program. I was unable to get basketball expenses for the Ohio Valley because bbstate now only lets you view a couple pages per day. I'll have to grab them tomorrow.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I was wondering when someone would say this. Realistically, if we dropped football, that money would just disappear. No sport would get more money. It's a nice thought, but it's very naive, and doesn't take into account other factors.

Listen up people - nobody gets more money if we drop football. It's just not going to happen.

I don't want to drop football but I don't think we'd lower funding the way you think we would if we did. We'd probably lose 50% but I do think they'd divert portions to the men's and women's basketball programs but only those since they are revenue sports. If they didn't, there is little reason to have a college athletics program. I also don't think they would drop the budget if we moved "down" to the OVC. It would be ISU's chance to be a big fish and I think Dr. Bradley would relish that... honestly do.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Gee, would we be having this discussion if we would have won a couple games?

We've had this discussion since 2007. It's fascinating and always good conversation during the offseason.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I don't want to drop football but I don't think we'd lower funding the way you think we would if we did. We'd probably lose 50% but I do think they'd divert portions to the men's and women's basketball programs but only those since they are revenue sports. If they didn't, there is little reason to have a college athletics program. I also don't think they would drop the budget if we moved "down" to the OVC. It would be ISU's chance to be a big fish and I think Dr. Bradley would relish that... honestly do.

Nice thought, never gonna happen. Now, it's just my opinion (don't want to piss off 4Q again), ok, maybe a bit more than that, but cutting football would only result in the closing of a budget deficit. And that would only be done if the BOT decided that the deficit is unsustainable. In that light, there would be no money for other sports, simply because they were borrowing that money already, and they're not going to continue doing that for women's basketball, and politics will keep them from doing it for men's basketball. So, funding for other sports wouldn't change, and we'd be no better off than we are now, except that we're spending less money.

Have fun being the "big fish in a smaller pond." I'd be totally done with ISU if they did that. Being a big fish in a crap pond isn't any better than being third in a great pond.

 

[southernindianaballer]

For the record.... the master plan for ISU states that building a new football stadium can improve the program and offer an important culture building opportunity for students, staff, faculty and alumni.
Also, I have NEVER heard any isu ad, pres, faculty, etc. make a statement that football was going away. Never.... so let's be careful about what is insinuated please. Football at ISU is important... it is supported.... there is a plan for it in place...
We have a high quality coaching staff and some great players ready for another awesome year.

 

[southernindianaballer]

mvc

I love the mvc. It is powerful. Really good schools... but really good schools in really remote locations.... for the most part.... that's the issue I have with the mvc. Why not bring travel costs down and play in markets that make sense to the ISU marketing scheme for academics and athletic recruiting? Really?? Athletic scheduled/competition are free marketing (well really not free... but a specific check isn't being written directly for it) and you can't tell me that Iowa, Dakotas, Kansas are important to our model. Now if you said we are going to St. Louis, Nashville, KY, TN, Atlanta area, Indy, etc on a consistent basis.... Hmmm. That's our marketing region for student athletes and ISU in general. And I would like to add Cincinnati area if possible... just my thoughts. The OVC is a good conference and ISU makes it better.... if you guys think SIU isn't considering it you need a brain transplant. Lol. Just a sarcastic jab there. Lol. .. look where they are and the schools near St. Louis. SIU is a fit for more than one reason too.

 

[4Q_iu]

Nice thought, never gonna happen. Now, it's just my opinion (don't want to piss off 4Q again), ok, maybe a bit more than that, but cutting football would only result in the closing of a budget deficit. And that would only be done if the BOT decided that the deficit is unsustainable. In that light, there would be no money for other sports, simply because they were borrowing that money already, and they're not going to continue doing that for women's basketball, and politics will keep them from doing it for men's basketball. So, funding for other sports wouldn't change, and we'd be no better off than we are now, except that we're spending less money.

Have fun being the "big fish in a smaller pond." I'd be totally done with ISU if they did that. Being a big fish in a crap pond isn't any better than being third in a great pond.

Per College-Sports.pointafter... We (ISU) spend $3.6M on all athletics; $500K the football team alone, is that correct? No idea, the website points at the Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool as the source.

Does that $500K account for the 'funded' 63 scholies? Or is it travel, salaries, equipment alone?

I DO know that if a school shutters a football team, it CAN begin 3-4 OTHER men's teams for LESS money.

I DO know that Dr Bradley and Ron Prettyman are FANS of college football, I've heard it from both personally but the fact remains, there are changes at the NCAA "power 5" level that can, may, will affect schools like us. Will we be able to weather those changes? THAT is the great unknown.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/4327/Indiana-State-University-Football

 

[4Q_iu]

I love the mvc. It is powerful. Really good schools... but really good schools in really remote locations.... for the most part.... that's the issue I have with the mvc. Why not bring travel costs down and play in markets that make sense to the ISU marketing scheme for academics and athletic recruiting? Really?? Athletic scheduled/competition are free marketing (well really not free... but a specific check isn't being written directly for it) and you can't tell me that Iowa, Dakotas, Kansas are important to our model. Now if you said we are going to St. Louis, Nashville, KY, TN, Atlanta area, Indy, etc on a consistent basis.... Hmmm. That's our marketing region for student athletes and ISU in general. And I would like to add Cincinnati area if possible... just my thoughts. The OVC is a good conference and ISU makes it better.... if you guys think SIU isn't considering it you need a brain transplant. Lol. Just a sarcastic jab there. Lol. .. look where they are and the schools near St. Louis. SIU is a fit for more than one reason too.

You can keep arguing the 'geographics' of the MVC as negatives and the 'geographics' of the OVC as positives...

Here's the reality.

Virtually NO ONE in St. Louis, Nashville, KY, TN, Atlanta-area gives two hoots about the OVC schools EXCEPT the PASSIONATE alumni- fan-bases of the OVC schools in those areas AND I would argue, they likely suffer the same "indignities" that many MVC schools suffer... current, past, future students wearing $EC gear on OVC campuses.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Per College-Sports.pointafter... We (ISU) spend $3.6M on all athletics; $500K the football team alone, is that correct? No idea, the website points at the Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool as the source.

Does that $500K account for the 'funded' 63 scholies? Or is it travel, salaries, equipment alone?

I DO know that if a school shutters a football team, it CAN begin 3-4 OTHER men's teams for LESS money.

I DO know that Dr Bradley and Ron Prettyman are FANS of college football, I've heard it from both personally but the fact remains, there are changes at the NCAA "power 5" level that can, may, will affect schools like us. Will we be able to weather those changes? THAT is the great unknown.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/4327/Indiana-State-University-Football

Believe that is how much we spend on football. We spend $12m+ total. See post #48.

EDIT: We're north of $13m per the most recent data on ope.ed.gov. So our spending has gone up again.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Nice thought, never gonna happen. Now, it's just my opinion (don't want to piss off 4Q again), ok, maybe a bit more than that, but cutting football would only result in the closing of a budget deficit. And that would only be done if the BOT decided that the deficit is unsustainable. In that light, there would be no money for other sports, simply because they were borrowing that money already, and they're not going to continue doing that for women's basketball, and politics will keep them from doing it for men's basketball. So, funding for other sports wouldn't change, and we'd be no better off than we are now, except that we're spending less money.

Have fun being the "big fish in a smaller pond." I'd be totally done with ISU if they did that. Being a big fish in a crap pond isn't any better than being third in a great pond.

So you're okay with being a small fish in a slightly larger than small pond?

Outside of Valley fans, nobody gives a shit about the Valley, either. There is no "prestige" with the Valley. I wish there were but it is a figment of our imagination. You have to win 30 games in the Valley to get an at-large bid. This isn't the 90s anymore... you know every rule benefits the P5 so I'd rather set us up for potential success.

 

[southernindianaballer]

You can keep arguing the 'geographics' of the MVC as negatives and the 'geographics' of the OVC as positives...

Here's the reality.

Virtually NO ONE in St. Louis, Nashville, KY, TN, Atlanta-area gives two hoots about the OVC schools EXCEPT the PASSIONATE alumni- fan-bases of the OVC schools in those areas AND I would argue, they likely suffer the same "indignities" that many MVC schools suffer... current, past, future students wearing $EC gear on OVC campuses.

Oh - I agree with you and we will never be a Big Ten or SEC school... so we deal with what we have... Knowing that... I just think financially, geographically, market-wise, school match-wise, that the OVC is a fit.... I'm not saying the MVC isn't a fit... But, IMHO, I like OVC better... If I were in charge of finances, athletics, marketing, student recruitment, alumni base - why would I not look at the OVC? Man... IF the OVC had an Indy & Cinci area institution... wow!

 

[IndyTreeFan]

So you're okay with being a small fish in a slightly larger than small pond?

Outside of Valley fans, nobody gives a shit about the Valley, either. There is no "prestige" with the Valley. I wish there were but it is a figment of our imagination. You have to win 30 games in the Valley to get an at-large bid. This isn't the 90s anymore... you know every rule benefits the P5 so I'd rather set us up for potential success.

You are correct about all rules benefitting the P5. I still would look at a move to the OVC as such a huge step down that I'd be done with ISU. I give them enough of my money already, they wouldn't be getting any more.

Now, if we could start a new conference from scratch, one that actually made sense for us both from a competitive and geographic standpoint, I'd be all for looking into that. But I am not driving to Terre Haute 13 or 14 times a year to watch us play SIUE and SEMO. So, I'll just go full time ND fan...

But this is all moot. We're staying in the MVC until something truly earth shattering happens...

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Believe that is how much we spend on football. We spend $12m+ total. See post #48.

EDIT: We're north of $13m per the most recent data on ope.ed.gov. So our spending has gone up again.

EDIT: Looks like we're just under $14m for the 2014 numbers.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1683662-ind-st-ncaa-financial-report-final-13-14.html