Horizon League will expand, IPFW to announce move Tuesday

[niklz62]

dang, it took me a long time to catch up with this thread. I didnt have time to look, but how much does our school make off of the MVC payout for the NCAA tournament?

I have a lot of other stuff but I dont have time to write a worthwhile post

 

[Jason Svoboda]

dang, it took me a long time to catch up with this thread. I didnt have time to look, but how much does our school make off of the MVC payout for the NCAA tournament?

I have a lot of other stuff but I dont have time to write a worthwhile post

Depends.

I believe they calculate shares based on a 4 year window and how many games are won during that period.

 

[southernindianaballer]

So you want a MVC that is current membership, plus Dayton, St Louis, the 3 Dakota schools, Youngstown City College and Western Illinois...

Recommend you read the history of the current WAC from ~1962 thru today...

The 'ideal' size for a conference is ~10-12; anything larger and the span of control becomes ridiculous. The MBB, WBB, baseball and football schedules should be double round-robin/round-robin.

Ya - I know... 10-12 schools is the target... just saying... it was mentioned on here that the mvfc schools that participate only in football should come in with all sports... and logically that could happen at some point... If it does, then the MVC needs to split in to two divisions... and let's think about adding St. Louis and Dayton at that point. Again, it wouldn't be perfect, but that would limit our travel expenses to the West and Northwest.
I was hoping someone would take my 18 schools and whittle it down to their best 12.... there are several quality schools in this valley region within 300 miles of TH...

 

[southernindianaballer]

I don't know a lot about the NCAA, conference creation, budgets, TV deals, the Big5 issues... etc. I think I know just enough though to ask the right questions... I know some of you guys know much more than I do....
What do you think a conference with schools in major markets like Indy, St. Louis, Nashville, and Cinci could garner from a TV deal? I know the “school” has something to do with it – but understand the geographic market might too... Would it be better than what the MVC can get? And.... you can guess the potential schools in each of those markets... Ideally... a TV package with schools in a tight geographic circle of 300 miles is what one would want, right? That way the TV revenue isn't gobbled up by travel expenses....sooo... What do you think a conference with schools in major markets like Indy, St. Louis, Nashville, and Cinci could garner from a TV deal?

I just really like schools in those markets because ISU can have "real" alumni events there and fans are more likely to attend for weekend getaways - fun cities... Not to mention it's our region for recruiting students and athletes.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I don't know a lot about the NCAA, conference creation, budgets, TV deals, the Big5 issues... etc. I think I know just enough though to ask the right questions... I know some of you guys know much more than I do....
What do you think a conference with schools in major markets like Indy, St. Louis, Nashville, and Cinci could garner from a TV deal? I know the “school” has something to do with it – but understand the geographic market might too... Would it be better than what the MVC can get? And.... you can guess the potential schools in each of those markets... Ideally... a TV package with schools in a tight geographic circle of 300 miles is what one would want, right? That way the TV revenue isn't gobbled up by travel expenses....sooo... What do you think a conference with schools in major markets like Indy, St. Louis, Nashville, and Cinci could garner from a TV deal?

I just really like schools in those markets because ISU can have "real" alumni events there and fans are more likely to attend for weekend getaways - fun cities... Not to mention it's our region for recruiting students and athletes.

Why would schools in those markets forming a new conference want us? You've got to be realistic.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Here's my two cents on this (again- the same as it was last year). Why don't we just be happy where we are, and why doesn't ISU get off its collective ass and do a better job of marketing, fundraising, and selling its product? Do you think anyone in Terre Haute feels like ISU is "Terre Haute's Team?" Why not? There's money there, fellas. ISU just is too inept to go get it...

 

[southernindianaballer]

Why would schools in those markets forming a new conference want us? You've got to be realistic.

Why wouldn't they want ISU? ISU has a good product, strong history, quality school, quality facilities (aside from football). Our market is small, but it's the combination of schools (and unique qualities) and geography that can define the conference product as good or bad. Nashville has a few like schools similar to ISU and geography is reasonable, right? Indy has IUPUI and Butler, right? St. Louis has St. Louis and SIUE, right? Cinci has NKU and Dayton just north, right? What specifically stands out to keep these schools from collaborating and coming together? What isn't realistic? The MVC is good - but the question posed was if we could put together our own conference who would we choose? So I was just curious if those regions and schools would warrant a decent TV deal if they were ever to come together? That's all....

 

[niklz62]

I was told buy a guy that was a coach at EIU at the time then in the Athletic Dept at EIU, that when EIU went from the Gateway to the OVC, they had to go all sports. Im taking it with a grain of salt, just because. he said he was mad that they had let schools in in sports other than football after that.

The move worked out great for them. they were in the Mid-Continent for all other sports at the time.

 

[4Q_iu]

Why wouldn't they want ISU? ISU has a good product, strong history, quality school, quality facilities (aside from football). Our market is small, but it's the combination of schools (and unique qualities) and geography that can define the conference product as good or bad. Nashville has a few like schools similar to ISU and geography is reasonable, right? Indy has IUPUI and Butler, right? St. Louis has St. Louis and SIUE, right? Cinci has NKU and Dayton just north, right? What specifically stands out to keep these schools from collaborating and coming together? What isn't realistic? The MVC is good - but the question posed was if we could put together our own conference who would we choose? So I was just curious if those regions and schools would warrant a decent TV deal if they were ever to come together? That's all....

For starters... will this "perfect" conference be centered on football or basketball? Because with all of the schools you're dreaming about joining... it's a either / or type of scenario.

And if you think you'll have a 'super-conference' of 18; 9 football and 9 basketball... why? Why wouldn't that 'super-conf' simply break into a 9 member football centered conf and a 9 member basketball centered conf... you know... kinda like the way things are today.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I was told buy a guy that was a coach at EIU at the time then in the Athletic Dept at EIU, that when EIU went from the Gateway to the OVC, they had to go all sports. Im taking it with a grain of salt, just because. he said he was mad that they had let schools in in sports other than football after that.

The move worked out great for them. they were in the Mid-Continent for all other sports at the time.

Yeah, I'd be majorly pissed if I were them about that.

 

[niklz62]

I had looked up all the schools in the MVFC and their sizes and the population of the county they were in and maybe the city population. When you take that into account we look a lot more like WIU than a lot of the other schools. If the OVC was all sports I think we would fit in good. I like being in the MVFC so I can talk trash about conferences with my EIU friends but if they were going to consider dumping football, I think they should consider changing conferences first. I would point to all the schools who dumped football and are now back playing bigger than ever and all the schools adding football. There is some good info and quotes about ETSU dropping the bringing back football saying it was the worst decision the school ever made.

As far as other sports that aren't played indoor, which direction would you rather travel. That's an honest question. Of course that might put them at a disadvantage. I don't know.

 

[southernindianaballer]

For starters... will this "perfect" conference be centered on football or basketball? Because with all of the schools you're dreaming about joining... it's a either / or type of scenario.

And if you think you'll have a 'super-conference' of 18; 9 football and 9 basketball... why? Why wouldn't that 'super-conf' simply break into a 9 member football centered conf and a 9 member basketball centered conf... you know... kinda like the way things are today.

I promise I don't have OCD - I just like talking about conferences and realignment opportunities/dreams... LOL while having a cold one...
Hey.. I'm just dreaming here... but why be like everyone else? Isn't there a story or something about the path least followed? LOL This is a conference... whatever sport the school has they play in this conference unless the conference does not compete in that sport – like maybe water polo – get it? With the size of this conference I can't see an advantage for a school to play football in the Southern Conference and basketball in this conference (BIGV). I think this conference leans to basketball mostly... but other sports look powerful too.
In my dream world. I would be able to create a TV deal based on key cities, key schools, etc.

There would be (basketball):
regular season championship scenario
All 18 teams play each other one time.
One “overall” regular season Champion based on head to head with all 18
East public/private overall Division Regular season Champion – yes – overall and division champs can be the same.
West public/private overall Division Regular season Champion – yes – overall and division champs can be the same.
One Private Regular season champion (based on private head to head)
One Public East Division regular season champion (based on public head to head in division)
One Public West Division regular season champion (based on public head to head in division)
I'm just saying to recognize the best public in each division and the best private...

Conference Tournament Scenario:
East Conference Tournament – winner gets bid
West Conference Tournament – winner gets bid
(this tournament is BIG in one location 18 teams – big turnout, alternate east and west games until each division winner is determined and then overall championship will be the next day to keep fans in town from all teams) This is a BIG week long event!
East and West play each other to improve NCAA seeding and for banner.
NCAA agrees to give 2 teams a tourney bid (winner of east & west) because of conference size. Likely to get 3 teams in NCAA though.

This model keeps schools involved with different ways to bring a regular season championship home to their school.
These are real regular season championships... best of public in west, best of public in east, best of private, best overall (public/private) in east, best overall (public/private) in west, and best overall all teams (the real deal). These are just chances for a banner... Now it's the conference tournament that matters to keep playing in NCAA.

These championships can increase a teams resume and influence the chance for an NCAA birth. Also, could create more TV games, more excitement for students and schools.

Trust me – I know it's confusing and many people will say I'm full of it... but hey – this is my dream. If your not 38-24-36 get out LOL Just kidding... please tear up my idea.

Football – easy – there are 12 FCS teams. No big deal here.... I can see some really cool track and field/CC meets.

Potential locations for HQ and conference tourney: Louisville, KY (KFC Yum Center), Evansville, IN (Ford Center), Terre Haute, IN (New Hulman Convention Center), Nashville, TN (Auditorium or Bridgestone Arena), St. Louis or St. Charles, MO, Indy Fieldhouse.
Let me get another... LOL

 

[4Q_iu]

I promise I don't have OCD - I just like talking about conferences and realignment opportunities/dreams... LOL while having a cold one...
Hey.. I'm just dreaming here... but why be like everyone else? Isn't there a story or something about the path least followed? LOL This is a conference... whatever sport the school has they play in this conference unless the conference does not compete in that sport – like maybe water polo – get it? With the size of this conference I can't see an advantage for a school to play football in the Southern Conference and basketball in this conference (BIGV). I think this conference leans to basketball mostly... but other sports look powerful too. In my dream world. I would be able to create a TV deal based on key cities, key schools, etc.

Yes, you are dreaming and you've had too many cold ones.

There would be (basketball):
regular season championship scenario
All 18 teams play each other one time.
One “overall” regular season Champion based on head to head with all 18
East public/private overall Division Regular season Champion – yes – overall and division champs can be the same.
West public/private overall Division Regular season Champion – yes – overall and division champs can be the same.
One Private Regular season champion (based on private head to head)
One Public East Division regular season champion (based on public head to head in division)
One Public West Division regular season champion (based on public head to head in division)
I'm just saying to recognize the best public in each division and the best private...

this is so convulated, NO ONE, not even the Commish of the Conference would be able to explain it.

Conference Tournament Scenario:
East Conference Tournament – winner gets bid
West Conference Tournament – winner gets bid
(this tournament is BIG in one location 18 teams – big turnout, alternate east and west games until each division winner is determined and then overall championship will be the next day to keep fans in town from all teams) This is a BIG week long event!
East and West play each other to improve NCAA seeding and for banner.
NCAA agrees to give 2 teams a tourney bid (winner of east & west) because of conference size. Likely to get 3 teams in NCAA though.

Seriously, you've HAD too many cold ones... the NCAA will NEVER agree to give any conference 2 auto bids "because of conf size"...

This model keeps schools involved with different ways to bring a regular season championship home to their school.
These are real regular season championships... best of public in west, best of public in east, best of private, best overall (public/private) in east, best overall (public/private) in west, and best overall all teams (the real deal). These are just chances for a banner... Now it's the conference tournament that matters to keep playing in NCAA.

This is the same F**KED UP "logic" has destroyed Indiana High School basketball... what utter bull**** ---- you MUST be a 'class' basketball fan...

...I can see some really cool track and field/CC meets

Love that we always have good/great T&F and X-Country teams... no one, NO ONE outside of the athletes and their families follow the sport with great passion, simply NOT a revenue sport. Has it's "groupies" and fans but there are 2 NCAA Sports that truly move the needle... MBB and football.

 

[niklz62]

Since we are on the internet, dreams are feasible.

 

[nwi stater]

Ok here's my dream:
Conf. finishers 1&2=dancers
3&4= nit
5&6= cbi
7&8= cit
9&? = enjoy the games on TV

No more conf. tournaments..............How many players get hurt and can't play later........Ask the loosiers and clappy

 

[southernindianaballer]

Yes, you are dreaming and you've had too many cold ones.



this is so convulated, NO ONE, not even the Commish of the Conference would be able to explain it.



Seriously, you've HAD too many cold ones... the NCAA will NEVER agree to give any conference 2 auto bids "because of conf size"...



This is the same F**KED UP "logic" has destroyed Indiana High School basketball... what utter bull**** ---- you MUST be a 'class' basketball fan...



Love that we always have good/great T&F and X-Country teams... no one, NO ONE outside of the athletes and their families follow the sport with great passion, simply NOT a revenue sport. Has it's "groupies" and fans but there are 2 NCAA Sports that truly move the needle... MBB and football.

Yes... it's a dream... and it's my dream LOL
It's not hard to understand. Play every team. Conference banners for Head to Head winners of Overall, East and West Overall, Best East Public, Best West Public, and best private. Conference tourney is typical... Only difference is to lobby NCAA for East and West conference champion automatics.

If NCAA won't agree to an 18 team east/west conference with each conf tourney champion getting automatic bid, why not?

I'm not a Class basketball fan.... When I played - teamwork meant something and the small schools beat up on the big ones all day because it wasn't optional. I do believe that giving a team multiple ways to be part of a championship is good. I was listening to Dan Dakich (Jordan stopper) talk about how much players love to play for championship banners... What competitive player doesn't want to have a shot at a championship. What student doesn't want their school to have more chances? This is an 18 team conference! Regarding the IHSAA - I think the only classes that should exist are public class and private class.... If we do have classes... Each private gets bumped up 30% automatically in enrollment - push them up to the next class.

This conference spells out what can't be denied in high school and college scenarios... publics and privates have different playing fields... why deny it... Give them some inclusion as different types of entities.

Agree about TF and CC being low revenue... It's low revenue for the schools but good for cities... big teams and multiple teams coming to town.

 

[4Q_iu]

Yes... it's a dream... and it's my dream LOL
It's not hard to understand. Play every team. Conference banners for Head to Head winners of Overall, East and West Overall, Best East Public, Best West Public, and best private. Conference tourney is typical... Only difference is to lobby NCAA for East and West conference champion automatics.

Again, smacks of the logic behind the destruction of IHSAA basketball.

If NCAA won't agree to an 18 team east/west conference with each conf tourney champion getting automatic bid, why not?

If the NCAA wouldn't do it for a conference as old and established as the WAC used to be... why would they do it for a new, never-been-tested conference?

If you HAVEN'T followed the NCAA... you need to understand that they are FOR the 'p5' conferences.

Let's see what the new $EC commish does... the new guy is coming from a mid-major background... I bet he's wholly p5 in his new job...

***UPDATE***

The new $EC commish is a clone of Mike $lime, I mean $live... Never mind the $EC will continue as currently, completely absent of any HINT of character, morals or ethics

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...04638/who-is-new-sec-commissioner-greg-sankey

 

[southernindianaballer]

Again, smacks of the logic behind the destruction of IHSAA basketball.



If the NCAA wouldn't do it for a conference as old and established as the WAC used to be... why would they do it for a new, never-been-tested conference?

If you HAVEN'T followed the NCAA... you need to understand that they are FOR the 'p5' conferences.

Let's see what the new $EC commish does... the new guy is coming from a mid-major background... I bet he's wholly p5 in his new job...

***UPDATE***

The new $EC commish is a clone of Mike $lime, I mean $live... Never mind the $EC will continue as currently, completely absent of any HINT of character, morals or ethics

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...04638/who-is-new-sec-commissioner-greg-sankey

FYI - I would also strongly consider giving the regular conference season winner in east and west the right to "host" their side of the conference tourney. Opportunity for them to create a bit more revenue and a reward to the students and university - create excitement and fun too. The final East vs West game played at the home site... of school who won the conference head to head.

 

[southernindianaballer]

Slight modification to my "geographical conference" took out UT Chat (bit too far SE) and replaced with Dayton... target the Cinci/Dayton market...
and we get a basketball conference in very key markets, traditional powers.... Butler, Dayton, Saint Louis, Belmont, Murray, IllSt, IndSt. This conference is pretty tough in my opinion... I think these teams make it intriguing and they would like playing each other. All things considered... Travel, Markets, TV deals, Rivals - would this be a better conference than the MVC?

Basketball and other sports
West
1 Indiana State University Indy area
2 Eastern Illinois
3 UT Martin
4 Illinois State
5 Southern Illinois
6 Murray State University
7 SLU St. Louis market (private)
8 SIUE St. Louis market
9 SEMO St. Louis area
East
10 Butler Indy market (private)
11 IUPUI Indy market
12 UE (private)
13 Tenn Tech Nashville area
14 Belmont Nashville market (private)
15 APSU
16 Eastern Kentucky Cinci area
17 NKU Cinci/Dayton market
18 Dayton Cinci/Dayton market (private)

Football
1 Indiana State University
2 Butler
3 Southern Illinois
4 Murray State
5 Eastern Illinois
6 Eastern Kentucky
7 SEMO
8 Tenn Tech
9 Illinois State
10 Dayton
11 APSU
12 UT Martin

LOL Could go to 20 by adding Bradley in West and Tenn State in East.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

No thanks. No better situation than we're in now.

If you move, even for some hypothetical dream conference, it needs to beneficial to us. I'm not interested in joining a conference to be a door mat.