Lansing Contract Situation

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Very disappointing to have nothing to look forward to for the next basketball season. The ransom issue is understandable but Lansing will not be a better coach next year & if he had 3-4 Romeo's coming in it makes no difference if he can't make a team of them and he has not shown any ability to do that for the last few years. It won't be better until he is gone. I would not give any consideration next time around whatever his record might be next year due to the downhill slide of the product especially the last 4 years. I still believe there will be defections of a negative nature before next season rolls out.
Romeo is a great example here after his team got bounced in the first round of the B10 tournament... I'm not sure 3-4 Romeo's anywhere is going to make that big of a difference. If the kid doesn't want to play 40 minutes all out then why would we put any of that at the feet of a college basketball coach?? Unbelievable.
 

TreeTop

The Menser Level
Supporter
This is pretty simple...

Anything short of an NCAA or NIT in the next two years Lansing is not going to get extended.

Clink is going to want to bring is own guy in - he's got to be itching to bring someone in and put his stamp on our marquee program. He's a D1 athletic director - making a good hire and potentially elevating our hoops program is how you build a resume! I'm sure it's killing him knowing that Lansing has coached his way out of this contract but the few donors we do have are more loyal to Lansing than they are the University. Even if that wasn't the case we don't have the money to bounce him if he wanted to and you better believe he wants to (at least that's my take).

I don't think any coach that has lost as much as Lansing has lost the last several years would get an extension after one winning season - to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what would make anyone think he's going to be able to coach his way out of this? He's been under the same pressure for multiple seasons now and the results have been pretty consistent - a lot of blow out losses! We got beat by double digits a lot this year by (I left out anything less than 14 points): 22, 22, 29, 15, 14, 15, 35, 14, 20 and 15 the previous year we had losses of 14, 19, 16 and 18. This is not a team that is headed in the right direction... This was not a team that was improved at all from his previous shitty teams. This is a team that needs a HUGE amount of help!
I haven't even read your post yet, just glad you're posting again!

(did I just say that?)
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
This is pretty simple...

Anything short of an NCAA or NIT in the next two years Lansing is not going to get extended.

Clink is going to want to bring is own guy in - he's got to be itching to bring someone in and put his stamp on our marquee program. He's a D1 athletic director - making a good hire and potentially elevating our hoops program is how you build a resume! I'm sure it's killing him knowing that Lansing has coached his way out of this contract but the few donors we do have are more loyal to Lansing than they are the University. Even if that wasn't the case we don't have the money to bounce him if he wanted to and you better believe he wants to (at least that's my take).

I don't think any coach that has lost as much as Lansing has lost the last several years would get an extension after one winning season - to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what would make anyone think he's going to be able to coach his way out of this? He's been under the same pressure for multiple seasons now and the results have been pretty consistent - a lot of blow out losses! We got beat by double digits a lot this year by (I left out anything less than 14 points): 22, 22, 29, 15, 14, 15, 35, 14, 20 and 15 the previous year we had losses of 14, 19, 16 and 18. This is not a team that is headed in the right direction... This was not a team that was improved at all from his previous shitty teams. This is a team that needs a HUGE amount of help!


what are your thoughts on a scenario where we win our 3 "close" Valley losses (@ No. Iowa, home vs. Drake, @ Missouri St)

that puts us at 18-13, 10-8 (T-3d) in conf... we're seed 4th, adv to Saturday's semi-s but lose (again) to Loyola...

Finish 19 - 14, does that get us another road NIT game? If so, what does Clink do now?

stand pat?, give a 1-yr extension?
 

Coach '72

The Sycamore Level
I have an out-of-the box solution. I've got to think how I want to word this before you laugh me out the door. Will continue - I have some basketball to watch. Would like to share though. Creative. Go blue.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
what are your thoughts on a scenario where we win our 3 "close" Valley losses (@ No. Iowa, home vs. Drake, @ Missouri St)

that puts us at 18-13, 10-8 (T-3d) in conf... we're seed 4th, adv to Saturday's semi-s but lose (again) to Loyola...

Finish 19 - 14, does that get us another road NIT game? If so, what does Clink do now?

stand pat?, give a 1-yr extension?
I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point.

I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by...

Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.
 
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meistro

The Newsom Level
Supporter
I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point.

I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by...

Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.
That last sentence is spot on and why if a change was gonna be made, it should have been this year. We all know why it wasn't. I don't envy Clink's job at all. Lot's of tough decisions to be made.
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point.

I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by...

Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.

Agree -- 95% of all sports talk is what-iffing every game to death, as you mentioned the 10 beat-downs we received, I'll mention the 6 beat-downs we administered 17, 29, 17, 23, 23, 17

There wasn't much progress this year, a slight uptick in wins... a lot of marking time, vice progress

I can see an NCAA bid next season getting HC GL a year extension... if we end up in the NIT, we'll need to advance in order for him to get an extension
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Has he ever won a post-season game as ISU HC?
Nope...

Waltman beat Oklahoma - did he beat anyone else??

Dillard before that?? Nope?? My lifetime is covered - historic program we got here!

The post season is so diluted - the only thing that really matters is NCAA tourney wins. Fans (us) get so caught up in the other post season tournament for no other reason than something to talk about.

He doesn’t need to win in the NCAA Tournament at this point - making it alone moves the needle. The problem is - he didn’t really recruit the last team he got to the tournament and he certainly didn’t do anything with the program after he made it... In other words - enjoy the roller coaster!
 
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Hooper

The Starter Level
Nope...

Waltman beat Oklahoma - did he beat anyone else??

Dillard before that?? Nope?? My lifetime is covered - historic program we got here!

The post season is so diluted - the only thing that really matters is NCAA tourney wins. Fans (us) get so caught up in the other post season tournament for no other reason than something to talk about.

He doesn’t need to win in the NCAA Tournament at this point - making it alone moves the needle. The problem is - he didn’t really recruit the last team he got to the tournament and he certainly didn’t do anything with the program after he made it... In other words - enjoy the roller coaster!
Not sure what you mean. He recruited the entire 2011 team as a Waltman and McKenna assistant. And he went to the post season for 3 years after that.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Not sure what you mean. He recruited the entire 2011 team as a Waltman and McKenna assistant. And he went to the post season for 3 years after that.
It was probably inaccurate to say “he didn’t really recruit...” those guys. I guess my point was that those recruits that he coached to the tournament are credited recruiting classes to McKenna & Waltman.
 

Tbac3

The Recruit Level
Could use a couple of dogs in this program. Might have to recruit from some areas that haven't been recruited from previously.
 

swsycamore

The Sycamore Level
Supporter
Try Indiana. Look at the number of Indiana kids that are playing for teams in the post season tourneys. They all must know something.
 

Southgrad07

The Wade Level
Try Indiana. Look at the number of Indiana kids that are playing for teams in the post season tourneys. They all must know something.
You mean like Ball State has??...They had 8 guys and damn near their entire core that played from Indiana...And they were under .500...Same with Miami of Ohio..We should recruit Indiana heavily and actually the last few years we have landed our fair share..But lets not act like we have ignored Indiana and that is why we have struggled. And if you want to point to the guys like Kyle Guy and Aaron Henry who are from Indiana playing in the Final Four?? We offered both of those guys early in their HS careers and they blew up...Not going to beat Lansing up over that..
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
You mean like Ball State has??...They had 8 guys and damn near their entire core that played from Indiana...And they were under .500...Same with Miami of Ohio..We should recruit Indiana heavily and actually the last few years we have landed our fair share..But lets not act like we have ignored Indiana and that is why we have struggled. And if you want to point to the guys like Kyle Guy and Aaron Henry who are from Indiana playing in the Final Four?? We offered both of those guys early in their HS careers and they blew up...Not going to beat Lansing up over that..
Legit Lansing gripes - not that doesn't recruit Indiana kids shit... This is super arm chair quarterbacky and probably not all 100% accurate but what are some things that Lansing and his recent shitty teams truely lack:

- He's super predictable even when it doesn't make sense. That shit with throwing it in the paint to start every game this year was ridiculous and predictable at the same time. Our constant usage of the same poor ass out of bounds play every time under our own basket was equally dumb. Maybe even more idiotic is the fact that he never tried to run a wrinkle off his own predictability... Like the other teams know what your doing why not try and show the same look with an entirely different plan/play in mind?? Seems to obvious - maybe our guys just never executed but I doubt it.

- Inconsistent accountability. Lansing has long found certain players that he will just ride and ride and ride - he will take them to task in the post game, take them to task in practice, take them to task in the game. Then others he's ride-or-die with to a fault. Will go in the post game and always talk about how hard they play, how much time they put in, how he will go to war with them - as if all of those things disqualify them from receiving the same level of criticism as everyone else. You look at some of the elite coaches in this game and they aint playing favorites regardless of the outcome. I am shocked at what he lets Jordan Barnes get away with. I am shocked that he let Devonte Brown kick the basketball around game after game. He has certain guys that he will just not hold accountable the way he should.

- Lack of attention to detail. His teams have not done the little things for many years now. I think some of this falls on his assistant coaches - look you can't stop practice every two seconds to point out all the little things that the kids are doing wrong. But you can sure as shit tell someone to get on the line and run all day if they can't do the little things. I think the mistakes his teams have made in practice have gone uncorrected for years and they carry over to the game. Lansing thinks it's "lack of toughness" he will tell you as much in the post-game after we get our butt beat - it aint lack of toughness. It's lack of attention to detail and the next thing.

- He's not recruiting hard-workers/leaders/winners in that order. He's been in on a lot of the right kids as has been pointed about above and just not landed them. But the kids he has ended up with are not all hard-working/leaders/winners. You get a little mix of one or two with certain guys but rarely if every all I think this team has just really lacked the correct makeup of kids. Leadership has been lacking for years - most of the real leadership that takes place doesn't happen in the 40 minutes of game when everyone is watching - hell that is when it should be easy to lead and we don't even get that. The real leadership takes place off the floor or in practice.
 
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meistro

The Newsom Level
Supporter
Legit Lansing gripes - not that doesn't recruit Indiana kids shit... This is super arm chair quarterbacky and probably not all 100% accurate but what are some things that Lansing and his recent shitty teams truly lack:

- He's super predictable even when it doesn't make sense. That shit with throwing it in the paint to start every game this year was ridiculous and predictable at the same time. Our constant usage of the same poor ass out of bounds play every time under our own basket was equally dumb. Maybe even more idiotic is the fact that he never tried to run a wrinkle off his own predictability... Like the other teams know what your doing why not try and show the same look with an entirely different plan/play in mind?? Seems to obvious - maybe our guys just never executed but I doubt it.

- Inconsistent accountability. Lansing has long found certain plays that he will just ride and ride and ride - he will take them to task in the post game, take them to task in practice, take them to task in the game. Then others he's ride-or-die with to a fault. Will go in the post game and always talk about how hard they play, how much time they put in, how he will go to war with them - as if all of those things disqualify them from receiving the same level of criticism as everyone else. You look at some of the elite coaches in this game and they aint playing favorites regardless of the outcome. I am shocked at what he lets Jordan Barnes get away with. I am shocked that he let Devonte Brown kick the basketball around game after game. He has certain guys that he will just not hold accountable the way he should.

- Lack of attention to detail. His teams have not done the little things for many years now. I think some of this falls on his assistant coaches - look you can't stop practice every two seconds to point out all the little things that the kids are doing wrong. But you can sure as shit tell someone to get on the line and run all day if they can't do the little things. I think the mistakes his teams have made in practice have gone uncorrected for years and they carry over to the game. Lansing thinks it's "lack of toughness" he will tell you as much in the post-game after we get our butt beat - it aint lack of toughness. It's lack of attention to detail and the next thing.

- He's not recruiting hard-workers/leaders/winners in that order. He's been in on a lot of the right kids as has been pointed about above and just not landed them. But the kids he has ended up with are not all hard-working/leaders/winners. You get a little mix of one or two with certain guys but rarely if every all I think this team has just really lacked the correct makeup of kids. Leadership has been lacking for years - most of the real leadership that takes place doesn't happen in the 40 minutes of game when everyone is watching - hell that is when it should be easy to lead and we don't even get that. The real leadership takes place off the floor or in practice.
I’ll probably get in trouble by some on here for agreeing with you most the time. But, you’re pretty much dead on with this assessment.
 

bent20

The Odum Level
Speaking of Waltman, what fascinates me is how closely Waltman and Lansing's careers at ISU mirror one another. Both replaced short term coaches who got the program back on the right track (even if they didn't stick around long enough to get credit for the tournament appearances). Both had immediate success and then several years of losing seasons.
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
OK, Sports Fans...

What does Lansing have to accomplish the rest of this season and next to get another contract extension?

A winning record is a given, so...

Win 20+ and make another post-season?
Win 25+, a Valley title or ArchMadness title and make the NCAA?
to quote Jake Taylor... "Win the Whole F__king thing..."
 
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