Lansing Contract Situation

[DyedBlue]

I think Lansing deserves another season, but you all have to admit that the MVC is not very good. There's a reason that two Thursday teams won on Friday and then one of them went on to play on Sunday. And trust me it's not because we play in an 8 bid league.

The year before we had a 5 seed playing a 6 seed on Sunday. The top of our conference is weak and the bottom is really bad. My guess is that post-pandemic it gets even worse when the MVC schools don't have as much money to blow on basketball.

OF course, that horrible league status and #5 league finisher which lucked into an MVC Tournament win and undeserved NCAA bid with a 15 seed playing clearly the best team in the Big 10 and #2 NCAA seed Michigan State would be blown off the floor and embarrassed.

I guess that is why Bradley trailed by 1 point with 4.5 minutes to play in the game and the MSU probability of victory in the second half hovered around 55-60% until the final minutes of the game.

Based on that result, perhaps any of the four teams finishing above Bradley in league play would have pulled out the victory. But of course, that is speculation and does not fit with the pre-defined theory that the MVC is a horrible leage.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

1. The league wasn't very good last year. The post about it not being very good wasn't inaccurate.

2. The league has a pretty darn good reputation nationally and is always among the best mid major conferences. Consistency year over year has earned the conference plenty of respect.

3. As with any league - you have a lot of fans who are homers. They like to cheer internally for EVERYONE to be successful as long as they don't beat your team on that night... Which is fine - but were always going to get a bit of a bias opinion from fans of MVC teams.

So I wouldn't get too hurt over the "predefined theory" sometimes it actually applies and it doesn't mean that the entire world actually feels that way. I think that it probably applied last year. The conference is not what it once was and that hurts some peoples feelings.

 

[bent20]

IKR! 3rd in MVC last season, overall career winning record, about to have the most wins in school history, one of the winningest coaches in the entire current ISU athletic department (and better record than any Clinkscales hire not involving a pool), wins over IU, Butler, and many other P5s. All with the lowest MVC budget, lowest MVC salary, and outdated facilities. Just miserable....

I wish that were more meaningful, but pretty low bar at ISU.

 

[bent20]

I don't think GL is the greatest coach ever, but I think he has put together as much talent as we have ever had so I don't see how you can let him go, considering the record he has.

If you're going to renew him after one semi-successful season, how long do you renew him for?

 

[Sycamorefan96]

1. The league wasn't very good last year. The post about it not being very good wasn't inaccurate.

2. The league has a pretty darn good reputation nationally and is always among the best mid major conferences. Consistency year over year has earned the conference plenty of respect.

3. As with any league - you have a lot of fans who are homers. They like to cheer internally for EVERYONE to be successful as long as they don't beat your team on that night... Which is fine - but were always going to get a bit of a bias opinion from fans of MVC teams.

So I wouldn't get too hurt over the "predefined theory" sometimes it actually applies and it doesn't mean that the entire world actually feels that way. I think that it probably applied last year. The conference is not what it once was and that hurts some peoples feelings.

I'm in my 20's, but when I first started watching ISU, the MVC was ranked in the top 5 of all the conferences and was consistently getting multiple bids. Maybe my expectations are too high, but the quality of the league has dropped significantly since then. Even during the Odum years our league was a lot better than what it is now. It kind of seemed like after Wichita went to the Final 4 everyone else just decided that they couldn't keep up with them.

I also remember when Arch Madness was one of, if not the best attended tournament in Division 1. Now days the crowds are not very good either. If they ever want a good crowd for CBS they better hope that two of Bradley, SIU, and Illinois State are playing each other or else the place will be more than half empty. Honestly I think the arena is too big and they need to find a new place to play it. It looks bad and that's with the upper deck covered over with a curtain, which didn't happen until after Wichita departed. There are 7 schools in our conference that won't bring 2000 fans to St Louis if they are playing on Sunday and we are one of them unfortunately. Before 2014 there were 6 schools that would bring a lot of fans. By the way, I didn't miscount. I'm not sure what happened to MSU's fans, but even when they make the semifinals they are basically no shows. I have serious doubts that they would have brought much of a crowd for the championship if they had beat Valpo in the semifinals.

 

[bent20]

I'm in my 20's, but when I first started watching ISU, the MVC was ranked in the top 5 of all the conferences and was consistently getting multiple bids. Maybe my expectations are too high, but the quality of the league has dropped significantly since then. Even during the Odum years our league was a lot better than what it is now. It kind of seemed like after Wichita went to the Final 4 everyone else just decided that they couldn't keep up with them.

I also remember when Arch Madness was one of, if not the best attended tournament in Division 1. Now days the crowds are not very good either. If they ever want a good crowd for CBS they better hope that two of Bradley, SIU, and Illinois State are playing each other or else the place will be more than half empty. Honestly I think the arena is too big and they need to find a new place to play it. It looks bad and that's with the upper deck covered over with a curtain, which didn't happen until after Wichita departed. There are 7 schools in our conference that won't bring 2000 fans to St Louis if they are playing on Sunday and we are one of them unfortunately. Before 2014 there were 6 schools that would bring a lot of fans. By the way, I didn't miscount. I'm not sure what happened to MSU's fans, but even when they make the semifinals they are basically no shows. I have serious doubts that they would have brought much of a crowd for the championship if they had beat Valpo in the semifinals.

MVC lost those bids before Creighton and Wichita left (that's part of why they left). Bigger conferences with more money started throwing their weight around. And for what it's worth, MVC did add a team (Loyola) that went to the Final Four after Wichita left, so ....

I still find it interesting that adding Loyola was a decision that many here and elsewhere in the MVC bitched endlessly about (not because they were a private school - a fair complaint - but because they allegedly weren't good enough to be in the MVC). And then it was proven just how wrong and foolish they were.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I don't think the MVC is unique, down, or whatever. The status quo has been maintained. I also think the MVC's ranking and seeds are pretty much as they were -- aside from getting multiple bids. The conference used to be in the 8-12 area but has remained in the 10-12 area save for a few seasons where it has been worse post WSU/Creighton. You've also had the creation of the Big East, significant consolidation to those bigger non power conferences including pilfering schools from the MVC, and mid-major schools figure out they have to spend to become dominant -- Gonzaga, Butler, St. Marys, etc. This is on top of the power schools shutting mid-majors out by not scheduling, having new metrics created, increased talent via autonomy, etc.

Adding Loyola to the Valley always had a distinct pros/cons list that we discussed ad nauseam. They decided they wanted to take a top spot and spent their way there. Anyone that didn't think playing in Chicago vs Des Moines, Terre Haute or Evansville would be a draw was kidding themselves.

You want to win at a high clip as a mid-major you up your budget to $5m. I don't think there is a single mid-major program at that threshold that hasn't been a perennial 20+ game winner in their conference. Certainly not any that have multiple down years. That said, I've also said if you start spending at that clip, I don't consider you a mid-major anymore... just like I don't consider a Gonzaga, a St. Marys or the A10 to be mid-majors.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

I still wish Loyola wasn't in the conference. In my view you should have to have either MVFC football or baseball to be in the conference. I don't think a requirement of having 2 of the 3 major college sports is too much to ask. We have all 3 while schools like Loyola and Drake only have 1 (maybe Drake gets a pass for Pioneer League), which already gives them an advantage over us.

 

[bent20]

I still wish Loyola wasn't in the conference. In my view you should have to have either MVFC football or baseball to be in the conference. I don't think a requirement of having 2 of the 3 major college sports is too much to ask. We have all 3 while schools like Loyola and Drake only have 1 (maybe Drake gets a pass for Pioneer League), which already gives them an advantage over us.

Schools at our level are just trying to survive in the college athletics landscape, so pretty hard to have a conference with schools that are all equal. If we banded together with state schools from Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee, maybe. But not gonna happen.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Schools at our level are just trying to survive in the college athletics landscape, so pretty hard to have a conference with schools that are all equal. If we banded together with state schools from Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee, maybe. But not gonna happen.

I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:

1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.

This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.

 

[4Q_iu]

I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:

1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.

This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.

I'd flip options # 1 and #2 but football will be the factor in our long term solutions/decisions. It's too "pricey" an issue to not address.

Hope all of the returning students and newcomers have great common sense wrt the COVID-19 "rules of the road"

Maybe we'll be more in control of this issue before the school year finishes

 

[Sycamorefan96]

My vote would be the OVC. We had our chance to be a Wichita, Butler, Creighton type 40 years ago and blew it. If we drop football we will just be an Evansville type. Going to Tennessee in the winter for a game is also more appealing than going to Iowa.

 

[bent20]

I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:

1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.

This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.

I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.

 

[4Q_iu]

I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.

Why is the MVC folding "soon?" it's in no worse shape than the WAC, Horizon, Summit, MEAC, OVC, etc, etc, etc

 

[HOOPSFAN]

I was opposed to Lansing being hired, and I'm still not a fan. However, with that said, if the season is canceled and his contract comes to an end...and it will, in all fairness....I believe he should be given a one year contract after this one ends. If he doesn't accept the terms....then let's move forward.

Let him walk ............. your vision is clouded. Creighton & Wichita both who ran roughshod over the Valley left a few years ago and did the "great one" move his teams in to the top 3 regularly ......... NO NO NO...... last season was better but it took years for him to get it back.

 

[HOOPSFAN]

I don't think GL is the greatest coach ever, but I think he has put together as much talent as we have ever had so I don't see how you can let him go, considering the record he has.

Send him on his way. If he has any ambition he should move on and follow his dream. He always seems to say "all I have to do is make a call". Make that call GL !

 

[Buckhorn]

Will Clink stay as ISU AD if GL's "Honor Guard" somehow secures an extended contract? Overhead drones report Clink's vehicles no longer w/ State of IN-owned license plates.

 

[region rat]

Send him on his way. If he has any ambition he should move on and follow his dream. He always seems to say "all I have to do is make a call". Make that call GL !

 

[Sycamorefan96]

I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.

If the MVC publics were smart they would form an all-sports conference with the 4 Dakota schools. Playing these little private schools does nothing for us. NDSU, SDSU, and USD are all an improvement over Drake, Valpo, and Evansville. But they're not smart enough to dump them so ISU needs to be aggressive.

People on here wonder why we don't have a rival. It's pretty simple really. Between football, basketball, and baseball we have 16 different opponents and out of those 16 we only play 4 in every sport and 7 in at least 2 sports. It's a joke.

Heck if we went OVC we would play 9 schools in every sport, and all 12 in at least 2 sports. This is one of the biggest reasons I would be happy to see us join the OVC.

 

[bent20]

Why is the MVC folding "soon?" it's in no worse shape than the WAC, Horizon, Summit, MEAC, OVC, etc, etc, etc

I said long-term. I wouldn't be surprised if it no longer exists in 20 years. That could be said about a lot of mid-major conferences, I guess, but the model just doesn't work well.