Schertz, Sycamores announce 2023-24 Indiana State men’s basketball schedule

[treeman]

I think the ONLY argument is that the space is limited and it perhaps discourages by way of the amount of seats students to come in the first place. If you move it to a side - then it’s got the ability to hold more students, therefore creating a better environment. I think that a lot of people in the 2000’s got really inspired by what Duke was able to accomplish with it’s students. It doesn’t need to be said - but I will say it anyway we are not Duke and we will never replicate that. We are not even close. We not only had a winning product but we had a winning product that played an entertaining brand of basketball - they didn’t show up like I thought the would. I don’t have a good explanation.

Exactly, the 3 arenas off the top of my head that have students on the sideline next to the court are Camden (Duke), Breslin Center (Michigan State), Crisler Center (Michigan). And yes their student sections are awesome. But people need to look at how their seating is set up. Where the student section is A: bleacher seating, not seat backs like HC has. B: it's a tier lower than the general seating above allowing for two things; natural separation from general public and allowing general public to see when the student section is standing. The HC just isn't configured for this set up.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Exactly, the 3 arenas off the top of my head that have students on the sideline next to the court are Camden (Duke), Breslin Center (Michigan State), Crisler Center (Michigan). And yes their student sections are awesome. But people need to look at how their seating is set up. Where the student section is A: bleacher seating, not seat backs like HC has. B: it's a tier lower than the general seating above allowing for two things; natural separation from general public and allowing general public to see when the student section is standing. The HC just isn't configured for this set up.

There are quite a few more. Zombie Nation (Gonzaga) is the entire sideline of one side. If you look up Naismith Student Section of the Year on Google Images, you can probably find more.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

That said, you don't entertain even touching the student section until the Forest is correctly organized and it is 100% full with overflow for several seasons. IMO of course. They had the momentum back in 2012 or so but lost it.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

Personally I'd rather sit in the very top row of the upper bowl somewhere between the goals, than in the first row of the student's section. To me the end zone seats are completely awful because your view is either obstructed by the shot clock or the goal post.

A lot of the students try to move to the corner sections where the view is unobstructed, and then the ushers come over and make them move. With the way the students are treated by the ushers at our games, I can understand why many of them don't bother showing up. I never attended ISU, but I've been profiled by the ushers because of my age for the past 8 years or so (I'm 26 currently). Usually as long as I sit in sections away from the students section I get left alone, but if I'm within one or two sections of where the students are then they come harass me and want me to move. Even in the upper bowl they harass me if I'm anywhere close. It's quite ridiculous.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Personally I'd rather sit in the very top row of the upper bowl somewhere between the goals, than in the first row of the student's section. To me the end zone seats are completely awful because your view is either obstructed by the shot clock or the goal post.

A lot of the students try to move to the corner sections where the view is unobstructed, and then the ushers come over and make them move. With the way the students are treated by the ushers at our games, I can understand why many of them don't bother showing up. I never attended ISU, but I've been profiled by the ushers because of my age for the past 8 years or so (I'm 26 currently). Usually as long as I sit in sections away from the students section I get left alone, but if I'm within one or two sections of where the students are then they come harass me and want me to move. Even in the upper bowl they harass me if I'm anywhere close. It's quite ridiculous.

While the view isn't perfect, it is nowhere near the same energy level or feeling. I sat both down low and in the 2nd deck and you're disconnected up top.

 

[bigsportsfan]

I think we need to return the trip to Northern Illinois. First game up there was cancelled due to Covid, then they came here this year for that masterpiece game. Pretty sure they moved DeKalb game to next season.

 

[dino]

Students didn't come to games this year... It wasn't because of the seating arrangements. If students want to be engaged and that is what it's going to take - then sure I'm all about it. However, I don't think the seating arrangements are the problem.

You keep saying this but I’m not sure it’s true. (Don’t know for sure either way.) But to be as objective as possible, how would you find out the student attendence? Would the the university be willing to leak the student attendance? How does it compare to seasons in the last 10-15 years? Who would we ask?

Just saying because I feel like it was solid for the most part. There were definitely a few conference games where the forest population was thin. But like I said before, it’s hard to gauge attendance based on the small section on the floor when you also know that students are sitting literally all over the arena (top and bottom.) the “student section(s)” are disjointed so it would be impossible to estimate student by looking towards that end end zone.

Would be interesting to know if the university looks at student attendance in any meaningful way. I’d be willing to bet that overall attendance or per game attendance for students was the highest it’s been in a while. Just a guess but there has to be numbers that tell us one way or another.

 

[4Q_iu]

Students didn't come to games this year... It wasn't because of the seating arrangements. If students want to be engaged and that is what it's going to take - then sure I'm all about it. However, I don't think the seating arrangements are the problem. Oh and it wasn't winning either - because this group won a lot. Granted they gave tickets away and sold them as cheap as they possibly could - but overall I thought attendance was pretty solid this year. We've got more fundamental problems with student turnout than where they sit.

seating WAS an issue that factored into my decision to attend games or not... not the sole factor, Ron Greene's absolute theft of ISU $$ to put an abysmal product on the floor was #1 but where students were required to sit AND the relentless dick-moves by the entire ISU Usher Staff was #2 Cost was irrelevant as they were 'free' (provided you were in good standing with the Bursar AND had artfullly obtained the highly COVETED silver star on your student ID...

 

[4Q_iu]

Offer those season ticket holders some kind of compensation for giving up their seats for another location.
For example, maybe paying for a season ticket with a considerable reduction in the mandatory donation?
There are many other options I’m sure.
The biggest obstacle for this to happen is the lack of marketing creativity and perseverance we have at ISU.

set up a program with the local Boys Club... establish a "disadvantaged yoots" program -- donate your game ticket to the program, get a charitable donation from it

 

[4Q_iu]

If we schedule a BCS team, I say fuck in-state teams.

Go after a league that has a similar offensive philosophy so we can do two things:

1) Have a higher likelihood of success since they will also be playing open concept;
2) Go to a state/region we want to recruit from more.

Continue to play ISU_Muncee... get Buttler back on the schedule...
Continue the annual MTE

play MAC schools before Atl-10 schools...
play Atl-10 schools before OVC schools

Still support a MVC vs. [ insert peer conf ] Challenge Series

No more NAIA, Div III - EVER

Only Indiana Div II schools...

Fuck playing ISU-E ever

 

[jturner38]

The teams we will be playing so far are:
USI
Tennesse St
@Ball St
@NIU

 

[swsycamore]

Exactly, the 3 arenas off the top of my head that have students on the sideline next to the court are Camden (Duke), Breslin Center (Michigan State), Crisler Center (Michigan). And yes their student sections are awesome. But people need to look at how their seating is set up. Where the student section is A: bleacher seating, not seat backs like HC has. B: it's a tier lower than the general seating above allowing for two things; natural separation from general public and allowing general public to see when the student section is standing. The HC just isn't configured for this set up.

Belmont does

 

[swsycamore]

Continue to play ISU_Muncee... get Buttler back on the schedule...
Continue the annual MTE

play MAC schools before Atl-10 schools...
play Atl-10 schools before OVC schools

Still support a MVC vs. [ insert peer conf ] Challenge Series

No more NAIA, Div III - EVER

Only Indiana Div II schools...

Fuck playing ISU-E ever

What's your problem playing Southern Indiana?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

You keep saying this but I’m not sure it’s true. (Don’t know for sure either way.) But to be as objective as possible, how would you find out the student attendence? Would the the university be willing to leak the student attendance? How does it compare to seasons in the last 10-15 years? Who would we ask?

Just saying because I feel like it was solid for the most part. There were definitely a few conference games where the forest population was thin. But like I said before, it’s hard to gauge attendance based on the small section on the floor when you also know that students are sitting literally all over the arena (top and bottom.) the “student section(s)” are disjointed so it would be impossible to estimate student by looking towards that end end zone.

Would be interesting to know if the university looks at student attendance in any meaningful way. I’d be willing to bet that overall attendance or per game attendance for students was the highest it’s been in a while. Just a guess but there has to be numbers that tell us one way or another.

I have sat directly across from the student section for the last God knows how many years now. I don’t need University attendance numbers to know.

When they’ve got empty seats and when they don’t fill up the section above and then even have spill over into the upper bowl it’s not a good student turnout. When the Forrest was going strong they had 5 or 6 rows deep into the upper bowl.

I will give the students that came to games credit for one thing - they started the wave a couple times which is amusing. That’s it.

 

[dino]

I have sat directly across from the student section for the last God knows how many years now. I don’t need University attendance numbers to know.

When they’ve got empty seats and when they don’t fill up the section above and then even have spill over into the upper bowl it’s not a good student turnout. When the Forrest was going strong they had 5 or 6 rows deep into the upper bowl.

I will give the students that came to games credit for one thing - they started the wave a couple times which is amusing. That’s it.

Your logic is that the students weren’t visibly in the student section so they just weren’t there. I don’t know why I’m shilling for students because I’m just going by my own eye ball test. Some games were definitely more populated than others. I would like to see numbers because it’s probably not as bad as it looks (pun intended)….But always could be better.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Your logic is that the students weren’t visibly in the student section so they just weren’t there. I don’t know why I’m shilling for students because I’m just going by my own eye ball test. Some games were definitely more populated than others. I would like to see numbers because it’s probably not as bad as it looks (pun intended)….But always could be better.

It’s all good. Yes - that’s my logic. Seems sound to me anyway. Maybe it wasn’t as bad as I’m projecting it to be. Or as Jason famously told me a few weeks ago and I will butcher this - maybe the reality of what I thought was good in the past wasn’t that great. He worded a lot more eloquently than that but I think it probably would work here as well…

 

[dino]

It’s all good. Yes - that’s my logic. Seems sound to me anyway. Maybe it wasn’t as bad as I’m projecting it to be. Or as Jason famously told me a few weeks ago and I will butcher this - maybe the reality of what I thought was good in the past wasn’t that great. He worded a lot more eloquently than that but I think it probably would work here as well…

I think I missed 4-5 home games and I definitely agree that the upper bowl behind the forest was almost completely bare for most games. It’s a bad angle and there’s always open spots in the upper area that aren’t hindered by the basket. Students generally migrated there. at the bare minimum they could throw a forest banner right in front of the upper deck end zone that would probably draw attention to that area.

I think we take for granted that we know that’s where students sat in the past (upper area overflow). All you have to do is point people in that direction and they will likely go there.

I think we do overinflate things but consider this. Last year the team wasn’t good and attendance wasn’t that great. The year before that was the year of no fans. The year before that the hulman center was partly under construction and fan support wasn’t at its peak (team was good though.) Point is, it been 3 full seasons since the last “normal” year that we can remember. A lot of those students are gone. New students need more guidance and wouldn’t hurt to have some kind of signage to direct students to the “student section.” It really isn’t that hard to herd people because crowds will typically follow ushers or signs that tell them where to go. There’s no signs in upper area so students just get in where they fit in.

 

[dino]

One thing for sure about the schedule is I hope that there are better opportunities for good opponents than what we saw in 22-23. In hindsight, those were confidence building wins early but the team wasn’t very tested based on quality of opponents. The surprise addition of 2 conference games before last season definitely hindered what the coaching staff could put together. With another year of experience building a schedule I hope they outdo themselves because 22-23 noncon was kind of rough.

 

[dino]

Sorry for triple post…

I would like to see mvc pair up with the mac for a conference challenge like they did with the mountain west. Top 6 mvc schools were relatively comparable in NET and kenpom rankings to the top 5 mac schools this season. Give me that, conference USA, or the sun belt and I’d roll the dice on those being good potential matchups for valley schools. At least, sounds promising if you could hold out as long as possible before assigning schools to create best possible matchups.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Continue to play ISU_Muncee... get Buttler back on the schedule...
Continue the annual MTE

play MAC schools before Atl-10 schools...
play Atl-10 schools before OVC schools

Still support a MVC vs. [ insert peer conf ] Challenge Series

No more NAIA, Div III - EVER

Only Indiana Div II schools...

Fuck playing ISU-E ever

I'd prefer to get games against the West Coast or Mountain West guys. Both of those guys have been ranked above us in the Sagarin conference ratings annually and I hope we eventually can start dipping into California where there is a ton of talent that would be system fits for us.

I don't think playing the MAC does anything for us so keep our rivalry game vs Ball State and unless we meet another in the MTE, they can keep it.

A Mid Major minus conference that are good system opponents would be like Southern and if you're looking for a lower major, the Northeast.

That would also get us into Florida, the Carolinas and some of the upper Eastern seaboard. If we're going to get stuck eating a bad RPI/NET opponent, at least work it where we can get secondary benefit.