Agree on all counts.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
State Budget Committee OKs funding for Hulman Center project
- Thread starter IndyTreeFan
- Start date
WANTED: Passionate Sycamore Fanatics. That You?
Register NOW to join our community of die-hard Sycamore fans.
Agree on all counts.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
Bally #50
The JSW Level
I agree 100% gentlemen. I am not from Terre Haute and you guys are, but the Convo proposal was a huge gamble. If they don't get the 37.5mil, they'll look bad for sure, but my guess is that they will and know they will. They also knew that TH side of the deal was shaky at best. As much as I was impressed with the plans, 40-45mil would do a super job fixing up HC, make it smaller but with more amenities, and most of all, regain control of the building. (Hopefully). IU spent 35, University of Dayton spent 72, on much bigger arenas. I think it was planned this way all along. Like I said, time will tell. I'll leave it at that.
And IU renovated Assembly Hall using only two donors. Two. Granted, Cindy and Mark are uber-wealthy but it just shows the chasm that lies between a Big Ten FBS school's donor base and a mid-major FCS school's donor base.
Bally #50
The JSW Level
For sure, Hoop. Guys, we often forget that we are "currently" a low mid-major, with sagging attendance in our two major sports, a fickle-student body when it comes to sports, and STILL a lot of first-generation college alumni. Our total ISU endowment is likely what Duke University or Stanford earns a DAY from theirs. We do have wealthy alumni (more than some of you may know) and we are just going to have to figure out how to bring them on-board. We have done a terrible job of doing that so far.
Last edited:
Are any of those wealthy alumni the same ones that told you we have a good fan base?
Bally #50
The JSW Level
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Not the very wealthy ones. Boda, I JUST SAID we have a bad fan base. I have no idea if it can be turned around but good football and basketball will help, and so will a new and improved building. If done right, a new HC could add 35-50%, a good team could double it. Combine those and then we don't look so bad. Same with football actually. You guys said 40-45 mill will do it. I just think it can be done. Somehow your optimism has gone down that same toilet as the thread on this article. Sorry to see it. I have hardly been all punch and cookie Pollyannish here. I've said the fund raising sucks, the fan base sucks, TH's finances suck, HC is not being run correctly, BUT I think they can make this work and turn around some of this bad crap. You don't so be it. You'll be back when they start working on it, I bet.
Last edited:
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
I hear that 60% of the time it works every time. Just tossing out a random percentage myself... c'mon Bob, you're smarter than this. Oh, and where the hell did I go to begin with?
Edit: BTW, since we're tossing out numbers... a discussion on the Hulman Center has received more replies than the football forum in the month of August once you remove the automated posts. This isn't about optimism... this is about realism and it's about time some of you took a haaaaaaard look at that. That's with an energized new staff (which I personally like very much after following them) and roster to boot.
Last edited:
niklz62
The Menser Level
Honestly aside from reading about practices, I dont know what to talk about. I cant wait to see us but any predictions about us or any team we play are useless aside from they putting us last in the preseason poll. I think at some point a few other teams are going to have to perform better to be ranked in front of us.
Optimism or Pessimism .... I founded the Ryves Community Optimist Club ... it is in an area where 95% of the neighborhood children live in homes under the poverty level. When the club was founded there was a great need for a better sound system. When they had Regional Silver Gloves matches boxers and fans came to Terre Haute from a five state area. Of course there were many other needs in the area but the new club put obtaining the sound system as a priority one need. We felt we needed at least $10,000 to accomplish our goal. We held our first fund raiser as FAN DAY at the football stadium selling beans and trying to get sponsors ... we worked hard but sold few beans ... we did get a few sponsorships and made a little over $1,000 profit. We could have used the money for other things but we decided to bank it in a separate fund for the sound system and we said we would not settle for anything less than a state of the art sound system ... then we had a fund raise at Baesler's ... and raised maybe a thousand more ... we could have purchased a little better sound system but we decided we wanted the best. Then we had a large donation from Mr. Tony Ashe ... it is now 5 years later ... a top quality sound system was built and there is still money in the account for maintenance of it. We had a goal without a strict deadline ... We have had many other fund raisers and accomplished many other things. I have lost some steam and Paul Conches and Teresa Ortega did a great job as the last event was at the Sycamore Banquet Center ... our last event at the football game was a kid's Carnival where we sold nothing and all money came through sponsorship. The event at the Sycamore Banquet Center was for school supplies ... another event raised money to stockpile socks and underwear at Franklin School ...but we never wanted to settle for a second best. SO begs the question ... do we want a state of the art facility? Do we want a Convention Center? If the answer is yes then we perhaps should not settle for stop gap solutions .... if all get on that same page then we go about raising the money ... and maybe it will take 5 or more years ... but it can't be done unless it is a priority ... and if it not a priority it will never be done ... and that is my final two cents
Bally #50
The JSW Level
Smarter than WHAT? I think they can do it, you guys don't. Don't tell me that I am not smart enough to know it won't work. Basically we agree on everything but who's responsible for the mess of TH, the THCVB and the county and I say we'll take the money and run with it. I already said, I'd eat crow if I am wrong but we won't know for awhile, so after you guys simmer down, we'll all sing Kum Bah Yah. For God's sake, all this bullshit has allowed to pretty well get the new system down pat. I felt a new football stadium would be built too (in 10 years or so). I am not stupid, I'm just more confident in ISU than you guys are.
Last edited:
Southgrad07
The Renn Level
One aspect of this that hasn't been talked about yet.. I know with the convention center there was going to a minimum seating total that had to be maintained in order to justify the project (around 9000 I heard)... I wonder if the state does approve ISU's request if they would attach similar strings...I would hope not and we could make it a realistic 7500 or so space with more room for suites and other frills.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
Bally #50
The JSW Level
They should be able to design this for INDIANA STATE, not the city and you are correct, it might not have been as easy to modify it too much. Why don't you ask Muncie how their convo center is doing while you're at it? They act in interviews like it is all well and good but in reality, the city, like Terredice, is in financial difficulties.
Big Hulman Center Plans Scaled Back
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/36200304/big-hulman-center-plans-scaled-back
Indiana State University hopes to use state funds for arena
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article168881872.html
ISU Shuts City, County And CVB Out Of Hulman Center Project
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/201...-county-and-cvb-out-of-hulman-center-project/
CIB Responds To Community Being Abandonded By ISU
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/2017/aug/23/cib-responds-to-community-being-abandonded-by-isu/
Effort still on to build convention center in Terre Haute
http://www.tribstar.com/news/effort...cle_14ce7818-8848-11e7-beee-bfec95f1286a.html
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/36200304/big-hulman-center-plans-scaled-back
Indiana State University hopes to use state funds for arena
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article168881872.html
ISU Shuts City, County And CVB Out Of Hulman Center Project
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/201...-county-and-cvb-out-of-hulman-center-project/
CIB Responds To Community Being Abandonded By ISU
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/2017/aug/23/cib-responds-to-community-being-abandonded-by-isu/
Effort still on to build convention center in Terre Haute
http://www.tribstar.com/news/effort...cle_14ce7818-8848-11e7-beee-bfec95f1286a.html
Okay, so what doesn't jive in all of this? Someone is obviously not telling the truth here.
And then...
So the same funding gap of $11-$12 million is present and Bradley says remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt. So why wasn't this on the table for the original scope of work?
"We do not want to risk losing this $37.5 million state investment in our community, which is the second largest capital appropriation the university has ever received," Bradley said. "I think there was consensus that the time had come, we really had to take action for fear of someone else in Indianapolis taking action to take the money away from us."
Renovation of the arena is expected to cost $50 million, Bradley said. Remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt.
And then...
”We did what ISU wanted and what the state of Indiana wanted,” Marvel said Tuesday. “There wasn’t fiscal constraints on our part.”
The project still had about an $11 million to $12 million funding gap that remained unresolved.
So the same funding gap of $11-$12 million is present and Bradley says remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt. So why wasn't this on the table for the original scope of work?
Bally #50
The JSW Level
Thanks for the info. Good reading. The only one pissing and moaning here, is the head of the CIB who basically didn't get his job done, period. The rest of it confirms what I have been saying.
To be fair, he may have a case. I've been going back and forth with Todd Golden and he responded with this:
That makes it feel a bit like State used the CIB and others to get the funding approved because they may have felt they wouldn't have received legislative approval going in solo. The bottom line at this point is someone acted disingenuous OR someone wanted more control and the others weren't willing to concede it. I think there is more to this story than all parties are sharing and I'm interested to see more as it leaks out.
The biggest negative in this whole situation is that it further causes a divide between the University and Terre Haute.
Last edited:
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
southernindianaballer
The Starter Level
This is all good. Several months ago I posted some stuff about convention center locations... The TH Convention Center should be on the Riverfront with easy access for big rigs, etc. (I never actually said that because I wanted some people to read between the lines.) The Hulman Center should get renovated as an ISU only facility so they have full control over athletic usage on their campus. TH found they can actually come up with some funds... move the convention center to the riverfront as part of the riverscape project.... build a large enough facility with removable astro turf that seats 20k for the football stadium. The Convention Center/Football stadium on the riverfront. Easy access for large equipment... farm shows, tractor pulls, car shows, etc. Do it for 80 million. ISU then moves to FBS... oh yea baby... LOL that part is sarcasm. Really - the convention center with removable astro turf is possible. A more versatile facility than Hulman could be.
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't read many earlier posts.
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't read many earlier posts.
Last edited:
Don't hurt yourself...
niklz62
The Menser Level
you're hired
BankShot
The Kleuh Level
Today's (Thursday) Trib-Star: "The Idea Lives On?" :lol:
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_edfa601b-7e47-5593-a30c-671acfce9b0e.html
What's so sad about all this whole thing is the INABILITY of TH "leaders" to realize WHY this thing collapsed. It should be a lesson to voters in the NEXT election that if they want TH to grow, you need representatives that have sound DECISION MAKING skills. A 20-yr. ex-school bus driver/caterer that now sits as Pres. of the Vigo County Commissioners is a vivid example of this problem.
Pres. Bradley cited "fiscal constraints" by the local government as reason for opting out of the Convention Center Plan. If an $11-12m difference in funding, FBI investigation of the City of TH re: illegal wastewater "pay to play" contract dynamics and the IN State Govt. Audit by the SBO which threatens the City because of it's $8m budget deficit & wrongful shifting of funds to help hide the TRUTH is not reasonable PROOF of "fiscal constraints, " what is?
Now add the burden(s) of financing new public school construction, a new county jail and new TH Police Dept...where's the $$$ going to come from?
It took COURAGE for Pres. Bradley to make this decision, no doubt in recognition of the ADMINISTRATIVE problems inherent between the University, City of Terre Haute and Vigo County govt. to OVERSEE the financing, construction and management of Hulman Center. He's no doubt aware of the problems that existed during CLIFF LAMBERT'S 30 yr. TH/University "experiment," and that this current "Devil's Triangle" was never going to succeed, at least in the BEST INTEREST of Indiana State.
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_edfa601b-7e47-5593-a30c-671acfce9b0e.html
What's so sad about all this whole thing is the INABILITY of TH "leaders" to realize WHY this thing collapsed. It should be a lesson to voters in the NEXT election that if they want TH to grow, you need representatives that have sound DECISION MAKING skills. A 20-yr. ex-school bus driver/caterer that now sits as Pres. of the Vigo County Commissioners is a vivid example of this problem.
Pres. Bradley cited "fiscal constraints" by the local government as reason for opting out of the Convention Center Plan. If an $11-12m difference in funding, FBI investigation of the City of TH re: illegal wastewater "pay to play" contract dynamics and the IN State Govt. Audit by the SBO which threatens the City because of it's $8m budget deficit & wrongful shifting of funds to help hide the TRUTH is not reasonable PROOF of "fiscal constraints, " what is?
Now add the burden(s) of financing new public school construction, a new county jail and new TH Police Dept...where's the $$$ going to come from?
It took COURAGE for Pres. Bradley to make this decision, no doubt in recognition of the ADMINISTRATIVE problems inherent between the University, City of Terre Haute and Vigo County govt. to OVERSEE the financing, construction and management of Hulman Center. He's no doubt aware of the problems that existed during CLIFF LAMBERT'S 30 yr. TH/University "experiment," and that this current "Devil's Triangle" was never going to succeed, at least in the BEST INTEREST of Indiana State.
Last edited: