Vigo Schools Tax Referendum

[BankShot]

Former Vigo County School Superintendent Gets Part Time Job After Felony Charges Dropped.

Tanoos gets job from former school board member Congratulations to Hamilton Center and Disgraced former school Superintendent Danny Tanoos. After a plea agreement dropped his felony charges, Tanoos…

terrehautenews.net

"Rub my back & I'll rub yours"...

 

[Sycamorefan96]

Did Frank Shahadey ever get a new gig too?

 

[BankShot]

Last I heard he was still fighting to keep his "gravy job" pension...probably now employed as a Vigo County Scheriff's Dept. "Special Consultant of Cold Case DNA Cleansing."

Court says Shahadey must pay restitution

A federal court has ordered former Vigo County Sheriff’s Deputy Frank Shahadey to pay $80,500 in restitution to the Vigo County School Corp. despite an $88,000 payment from another participant

www.tribstar.com

frank shahadey - The Indiana Lawyer

www.theindianalawyer.com

 

[BankShot]

Elkhart Schools referendum fails

ELKHART, Ind.--- A $120 million referendum for Elkhart Community Schools failed on Tuesday. Unofficial results show 3,766 people voted against the measure while only 2,075 voted for it. "We’ve ended up

www.abc57.com

A year ago...

 

[Sycamorefan96]

Elkhart Schools referendum fails

ELKHART, Ind.--- A $120 million referendum for Elkhart Community Schools failed on Tuesday. Unofficial results show 3,766 people voted against the measure while only 2,075 voted for it. "We’ve ended up

www.abc57.com

A year ago...

64% is a pretty healthy amount that voted against it. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come in Vigo County. 8%+ inflation and these crazy gas prices have been enough of a tax hike on everyone this year. Nobody needs this extra burden.

 

[krwilson2]

What's being overlooked is the NEGATIVE impact of higher property taxes upon home construction and the real estate market in general, which is #1 on the list of "quality of life" factors while attracting employees.

Does anyone know WHY Ohio Twp/Newburgh grew off the charts during the past half century? LOW property taxes. Most are migrants from neighboring Evansville/Vanderburgh County. While the rates have risen considerably over recent yrs. to compensate for parks, law enforcement & water/sewer expansion, they still use the old Castle HS (built in '59; now a M.S.) and "new" Castle HS (built in'75). Yes, there have been renovations & renewal $$$ spent over the yrs., but nothing close to $1/4Billion...

My Indiana geography is a little fuzzy and dated, but doesn’t Castle amount to a 2-county (ish) HS system with similar populations to THN and THS at one and a slightly larger version of WVHS at the other? It would be interesting to know the timeline of their most recent renovations relative to those in Vigo Co.

…in terms of amenities, cost, dates, etc.

 

[Bob Evans]

Small schools and therefore (hopefully), small class size, in my opinion, would raise the QUALITY of the education of students. I am never in favor of consolidation. The culture of a small school is better EVERY TIME. Behavior is easier to maintain. Instruction can be personalized. Don't colleges brag about their low student to teacher ratio?You may save a few bucks by consolidating, but at whose expense?

 

[BrokerZ]

Small schools and therefore (hopefully), small class size, in my opinion, would raise the QUALITY of the education of students. I am never in favor of consolidation. The culture of a small school is better EVERY TIME. Behavior is easier to maintain. Instruction can be personalized. Don't colleges brag about their low student to teacher ratio?You may save a few bucks by consolidating, but at whose expense?

That’s an interesting thought. I’m kind of stuck in the middle there.

I went to a 1A high school in Indiana, played whatever sport I wanted, and graduated in a class of 58 kids. I had a closer relationship with my teachers, coaches, faculty, and my fellow students. What we lacked in resources we made up for in accessibility.

Now, however, I live in a suburb of Dallas that has the largest high school in Texas. I would have to look up how it compares nationwide, but it has to be one of the largest in the U.S. It’s the high school my kids will attend should we continue living here that long. I look at that high school and see a mountain of resources and opportunities for learning I never even remotely had access to growing up. They have state of the art technology, top notch teachers, modern facilities, etc. because they aren’t spreading the property tax resources so thinly. It’s definitely the polar opposite to what I grew up attending, but I definitely see it’s merits.

I guess I’m saying both can be good.

 

[4Q_iu]

My Indiana geography is a little fuzzy and dated, but doesn’t Castle amount to a 2-county (ish) HS system with similar populations to THN and THS at one and a slightly larger version of WVHS at the other? It would be interesting to know the timeline of their most recent renovations relative to those in Vigo Co.

…in terms of amenities, cost, dates, etc.

Warrick Co. has 3 HS -- Castle is currently larger than THN and THS, Boonville is ~twice the size of West Vigo and then lil' ol' Tecumseh is ~half the size of West Vigo

Castle has benefited from the tax base that Alcoa has long provided; Boonville and Tecumseh were not, are not benefactors of Alcoa

Castle is an outlier given Alcoa's $$

 

[BankShot]

As one who's personally worked @ Alcoa (Stores/Purchasing) and friends/family who've been employed there since the mid-60's, explain the 10 mile highway that connects Boonville w/ Alcoa and WHY it was built? Alcoa's influence extends FAR BEYOND Ohio Twp in Warrck County, simply because of 1) the supply base of Alcoa's energy supply (low sulfur coal) and 2) the scattered domicile's of their employees. Btw, the current Mayor of Boonville is a RETIRED Alcoa employee.

Much of Newburgh's growth occurred within the 10 yr. era ('65-74) construction of the NEW Ohio River Dam 47 project by Pittsburgh-based Dravo Corp., in which many employees opted to remain in Newburgh. During this time period, the major artery thru the heart of Newburgh (Hwy 662) was impacted by the new northern shift of the Ohio River channel, suffering massive erosion & highway closure. All E-W traffic was then routed via Hwy 66 N. AROUND Newburgh. Strangely enough, this is when the massive growth/housing boom occurred, PRIMARILY because of the comparative low property tax rates in Ohio Twp.

It took five (5) yrs. to secure federal funding to remedy the 662 wipeout. Old Newburgh as a functioning town essentially folded as business was almost non-existent. It took it's present look because of Historic Newburgh, Inc. and private enterprise associated with the housing boom, most residents who relocated from Evansville due to low property taxes.

 

[4Q_iu]

Small schools and therefore (hopefully), small class size, in my opinion, would raise the QUALITY of the education of students. I am never in favor of consolidation. The culture of a small school is better EVERY TIME. Behavior is easier to maintain. Instruction can be personalized. Don't colleges brag about their low student to teacher ratio?You may save a few bucks by consolidating, but at whose expense?

There can be, there IS Too Small.

Cannelton HS (~280 students) should have shoved into Tell City, maybe Perry Central decades ago
New Harmony finally did their students right and closed, sending them to No. Posey
Medora has ~85 students from 6-12, an avg of 15 per graduating class -- the citizens of Jackson Co. are NOT being served funding 4 HS, especially given that Medora could be dropped into Brownstown and no one would notice

And there can be Too Big is Failing

Frankly, no 9-12 HS should be more than 1,250 kids - Carmel should be 3-4 high schools, not one

vastly different education "problems" in the Indy-metro area, Lake, Porter - Region counties than in Jackson, Clinton or Warren counties

 

[niklz62]

I get a kick out of people in Vigo county complaining about property tax rates. I live in suburban Indy, I’ll trade you in a minute.

as an Illinois resident Id take your suburban Indy taxes in a second and I have no idea how they compare.

 

[sycamore tuff]

I thought the North south road was built just for me. I was camping at scales lake in Booneville and working at the Yankee town power plant back in the fall of 1990. That was the year Cincinnati swept Oakland in the World Series. I did get sent over to the Alcoa power plant one day to repair a tube leak in the boiler.

 

[BankShot]

I thought the North south road was built just for me. I was camping at scales lake in Booneville and working at the Yankee town power plant back in the fall of 1990. That was the year Cincinnati swept Oakland in the World Series. I did get sent over to the Alcoa power plant one day to repair a tube leak in the boiler.

"Tuffie Tollway?" Sounds like something then Boonville native/IN Speaker of the House MIKE PHILLIPS might've commissioned, had he NOT been heavily involved in the politics favoring the NEW IN State Prison location to the Lynnville area. Gov Bayh ultimately chose CARLISLE, thanks to some heavy lobbying by the WC IN political coalition.

Seriously though, that highway was built in the mid-60's during Alcoa's massive growth as "aluminum cans" became popular.

Have you been to Scales lately? My nephew has constructed a nice Mountain Bike course there, and is currently designing one for USI.

 

[krwilson2]

Okay, I might have exaggerated my lack of knowledge about that area a tad - the Alcoa piece cannot be understated, nor ignored (nods WAAAAY retroactively at BASF). Similarly, looking at the construction costs of the upgrades to those facilities at all three schools matters when the one takes into account the dates of construction.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day.

p.s. Boonville HS has some amazing facilities.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I’m awake because my newborn is awake… Now I stumbled upon this ridiculous thread and I must chime in as I feel morally obligated.

First you should know I’ve put some personal time and effort into making sure this referendum passes. I spoke at a school board meeting, I have a sign in my yard and I have yet to be published letter to the editor. Many have done much more than me - but it’s important to me that you know my efforts don’t start or stop with a message board post.

Secondly, the only people that have a reasonable argument in Vigo County when bitching about this tax are the land owners - specifically farmers. I’ve talked to several and understand the issues they have with this. I do know that Haworth has gone to great lengths to talk with the farmers/associations. He’s definitely working for votes and to try and get this passed. But talk is cheap and owning thousands of acres with a property tax increase isn’t ideal.

Next, my wife is a 5th grade teacher in VCSC and I have MANY issues with the corporation past and present. So I don’t arrive at my decision to support this with extreme bias. The corporation has LONG neglected these facilities and teacher salaries… All while administrative salaries across the board have been in the top 5-10% of the state of Indiana. That is beyond ridiculous.

But we can’t make up for years of neglecting these facilities and budget malpractice by voting this down… That doesn’t solve the issue at hand! You have 3 high schools and several elementary and middle schools that need MAJOR renovation. This funding will extend beyond high school renovations and should trickle down to elementary and middle schools over time.

As has been mentioned in this thread - taxes in general for Vigo Co. given our population are pretty reasonable. In fact we are on the lower end when looking at comparable median property tax rates by county in Indiana:

Pop Rank / County / Median Tax / Pop

13	Madison County $913	129,486
14	Clark County $1,036	117,410
15	Delaware County $959	114,461
16	LaPorte County $1,047	110,026
17	Vigo County $875	107,305
18	Bartholomew County $1,108	83,280
19	Howard County $978	82,486

Any tax increase is obviously going to significantly increase that $875 median number. But look at counties of our size in Indiana - from a property tax standpoint we’ve got it pretty good here.

If you want nice things - if you want to attract higher paying jobs - attract new companies - encourage private sector growth - retain college talent… On and on you’ve got to be willing as a resident to invest in your youth and to invest in our schools. Unfortunately, past administration’s failure to address the high schools and neglect of these facilities has put us in this situation… Now taxation is the only solution. Tough.

That’s a good segway to discuss “timing” as I said above they don’t really have anymore time to wait to address the issues with these schools they are beyond simple repair. On a broader scale the corporation has been engaged in this effort for years not months. I think they initially started working with consultants and contractors on the scope of this project 3 years ago now. It’s pretty unlucky and inconvenient that it’s going on the ballot at a time when costs, inflation etc. are astronomical!! No doubt - but that is nothing the corporation could have predicted and is simply bad luck. Implying that they’re putting this referendum out amidst all of these other things going on around the world is ignorant. When they had to submit the referendum language for the ballot… gas prices, inflation And Russia Ukraine were non issues at the time. Plus - local decisions and politics must carry on despite what is going on throughout the rest of the country and around the world.

In closing - a lot of commentary in this thread lacks any substance what-so-ever. Anyone proclaiming the town is run by fools should be immediately dismissed. Sure this town - like many small/mid size towns in Indiana and throughout the country has some fools in office that should be voted out. In my line of work I deal with many municipalities across Indiana and Illinois - I can assure you that the leadership in this town from Mayor Duke on down is not comprised of fools as has been suggested in this thread. I shouldn’t even of addressed it but I get tired of people spreading untruths that have no idea what they are talking about. It’s like reading Facebook fodder in long-form in a more personal setting. I’m not going to sit back and let people just spread that nonsense.

So if you’re still undecided on what is best for you as far as this referendum I’d gladly engage in a conversation with anyone on here or in a different setting. Just let me know - glad to have the conversation. But unless you’re a farmer - I really don’t see the gripe. If you voted to pass the casino referendum (as I did) and you vote this referendum down - you just voted for gambling/tourism/entertainment and against education. Let that sink in.

If you’re here just to shit on Terre Haute - bitch about past administration failures or what-have-you then we really don’t have time for that. Go have a conversation with like minded people on WTHI’s Facebook page or something.

 

[krwilson2]

You said bitch and shit. Hopefully many vote for both. The tax base isn't going to increase unexpectedly without an influx of businesses (that doesn't get a huge abatement....but that's a different topic). We agree on almost every point. But you said bitch and shit, which shows your passion. Love it.

Watching one spot over from Ukraine,

K

 

[CardLake49]

SSOM I'm not sure i've ever agreed more on anything I've seen you post in my short time here. I wanted to bring up several of the points you did (with much less detail) but just didn't have the energy.

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about this issue in regards to who votes. As you said, the folks impacted the most are farmers, and probably business owners. Folks who own homes will be impacted but on a much smaller scale. Yet folks like me who rent will also be allowed to vote. I find this interesting. Not wrong necessarily, but interesting. I wonder what percentage of folks who will actually vote are home owners vs renters. I'd guess that renters are less likely (not unlikely) to vote in a primary than a general election.

I also wonder if folks know about how much their property taxes will be impacted by the referendum. I talked to someone who lives in Edgewood Grove (may not be Allendale but it ain't 3rd Ave either) and he said his taxes will go up $8 a month. You can't even feed a child in a 3rd world country for that anymore. VCSC has done well by providing this tax calculator on their website so folks can estimate the impact of the referendum. http://web.vigoschools.org/referendum_calculator

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

SSOM I'm not sure i've ever agreed more on anything I've seen you post in my short time here. I wanted to bring up several of the points you did (with much less detail) but just didn't have the energy.

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about this issue in regards to who votes. As you said, the folks impacted the most are farmers, and probably business owners. Folks who own homes will be impacted but on a much smaller scale. Yet folks like me who rent will also be allowed to vote. I find this interesting. Not wrong necessarily, but interesting. I wonder what percentage of folks who will actually vote are home owners vs renters. I'd guess that renters are less likely (not unlikely) to vote in a primary than a general election.

I also wonder if folks know about how much their property taxes will be impacted by the referendum. I talked to someone who lives in Edgewood Grove (may not be Allendale but it ain't 3rd Ave either) and he said his taxes will go up $8 a month. You can't even feed a child in a 3rd world country for that anymore. VCSC has done well by providing this tax calculator on their website so folks can estimate the impact of the referendum. http://web.vigoschools.org/referendum_calculator

Some of that is probably just a product of this being a message board and sometimes the path less traveled makes for a better conversation... If everyone agreed or just took the sensible route approach then wouldn't be much to discuss. On the other hand - we probably just see basketball (since that is mainly what is discussed on here) through a different lens and that's okay.

As for "renters" voting... Many of those renters may eventually be home owners and even if not many of those renters have students that are going to be impacted by improved facilities. So while - yes they add an interesting dynamic in trying to predict the outcome of this referendum (admittedly I think it will be really close) I'm perfectly okay with it for the reasons I stated. Beyond that, I am not very well versed on election laws but I doubt that renters could be excluded from such a vote even if the VCSC preferred that they be?!

I would say most people have not done the research on property taxes and what they intend to do with the funding... I am in the process of moving but I think on my current property I was looking at around $240 annually - so not insignificant but a small price to pay for my kids, my nieces and nephews and my friends kids. Just read this thread alone and you can see that SOME of those objecting immediately arrived at that conclusion without even giving it much consideration. 1. Our taxes are already to high figure out another way. 2. The school corporation is corrupt and I don't trust them. 3. I wanted one mega high school and not the renovation of the three existing facilities. 4. Inflation, Gas Prices, War, Building Material Costs. And countless other reasons that people will come up with not to vote for this thing without ever taking a step back and taking in the bigger picture!

Because I actually was in favor of combining North and South - putting it on the east side of town (probably the most central location possible) and leaving West alone. They went a different direction - I just have to get over the fact that it wasn't what I had hoped they would do... Again... Tough!

 

[CardLake49]

Some of that is probably just a product of this being a message board and sometimes the path less traveled makes for a better conversation... If everyone agreed or just took the sensible route approach then wouldn't be much to discuss. On the other hand - we probably just see basketball (since that is mainly what is discussed on here) through a different lens and that's okay.

As for "renters" voting... Many of those renters may eventually be home owners and even if not many of those renters have students that are going to be impacted by improved facilities. So while - yes they add an interesting dynamic in trying to predict the outcome of this referendum (admittedly I think it will be really close) I'm perfectly okay with it for the reasons I stated. Beyond that, I am not very well versed on election laws but I doubt that renters could be excluded from such a vote even if the VCSC preferred that they be?!

I would say most people have not done the research on property taxes and what they intend to do with the funding... I am in the process of moving but I think on my current property I was looking at around $240 annually - so not insignificant but a small price to pay for my kids, my nieces and nephews and my friends kids. Just read this thread alone and you can see that SOME of those objecting immediately arrived at that conclusion without even giving it much consideration. 1. Our taxes are already to high figure out another way. 2. The school corporation is corrupt and I don't trust them. 3. I wanted one mega high school and not the renovation of the three existing facilities. 4. Inflation, Gas Prices, War, Building Material Costs. And countless other reasons that people will come up with not to vote for this thing without ever taking a step back and taking in the bigger picture!

Because I actually was in favor of combining North and South - putting it on the east side of town (probably the most central location possible) and leaving West alone. They went a different direction - I just have to get over the fact that it wasn't what I had hoped they would do... Again... Tough!

Renters definitely can not be excluded from voting on the referendum. I figured they couldn't but didn't know the history behind it until i talked to the friend I mentioned. He's taught history in VCSC for a bit over 15 years, mostly at the high school level. He walked me thru the issue on a video message. My thought was, and is, that the majority of renters who do vote in the primary next month may be more apt to vote yes on the ref as they don't have skin in the game, yet would get the benefits of it passing. I have a freshman at south and a 4th grader. I plan to vote yes. At this point it wouldn't impact my pockets but my 4th grader (and maybe my freshman but probably not) will reap whatever benefits there may be.