here's an article in tonight's Indy Star
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ether-license-gary-gets-relocated/2377691002/
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ether-license-gary-gets-relocated/2377691002/
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
Casino Coming to Terredice
- Thread starter SycamoreStateofMind
- Start date
WANTED: Passionate Sycamore Fanatics. That You?
Register NOW to join our community of die-hard Sycamore fans.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
niklz62
The JSW Level
I think a casino in TH would bring in not only gamblers who would otherwise go to chicago peoria st louis and evansville but also ammenities that people who are in rural areas between TH and cities like Champaign, Danville, Lafayette, Indy, Evansville ect. I have a lot more choices for about the same drive to champaign but I like TH and its nostalga for me but for a lot of people around me thats not the case so i think it will be a net positive for people coming jn who would otherwise chose a different town.
Casinos are designed to be self-supporting "islands" --- who's going to stop off for a burger at Steak-N-Shake, a steak at T-H's finest when the casino is pushing their $13.99 'All-You-Can-Eat Seafood Buffet'?
few if any are going to have a cocktail at The Copper Bar and then go to the casino because the casino provides Free Drinks
10K people more make come to T-H than Evansville but the state won't be any wealthier -- it's simply moving the same $$ around within the state
But then I remembered the platform on which I found it...
I'd be more interested in Greg's business skills if he didn't have Max in the background...
Happy New Year! May everyone have a great 2019!
Last edited:
Correct. What you'll have is just further dilution from current casinos. Someone say 45 minutes from the Haute but 2 hours from Evansville may now go to Terre Haute. Having going to Anderson, Shelbyville, French Lick, Evansville and Gary casinos, I can tell you I never spent a dollar (aside from a gas station) in the area outside of French Lick, and that only happened because it was a bachelor party and we stayed overnight. Everything else was a day trip -- go gamble/eat/show a bit and head back home.
That is where you have to hope Terre Haute can land some nice sized conventions because you have a captive audience. I can also see it being a decent sell for Homecoming as the night before festivities is often dead.
Twitch, I posted a link to the IU data site that shows you what happens economically. My conclusion is that casinos have a net negative effect on their communities. I feel even stronger about that stance now seeing where/how the taxes are split. Not enough of the pie goes back into the local community IMO.
Let me ask you this. Look at the areas that end up getting them. Do you see any common denominators among them? Why do you Indy keeps rejecting all of the casino proposals? They could make a killing on one downtown but have refused yearly pretty much since I've moved up here. They pretty much put them in rural or poor areas by and large. Think about who you see playing the lottery the most. It's a poor people tax.
As for your closing paragraph, just one counter point. It is possible incomes will go down, crime will increase, etc. That has happened in several of the cities that have them now. It is possible those factors could hurt enrollment. What happens when enrollment drops? A whole different subject, but I think colleges will face drastic enrollment issues as a whole when the next recession hits and with the fact that trade schools are becoming popular again. Just something to think about -- but I do agree with you that if an entrepreneur wants to try to do something and they are funding it (and not getting insane tax breaks to do so -- that killed a lot of Burkes so called great pulls during his time) then I'm all for it.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
I follow your logic throughout. Let me
Add a couple things in response. I think the question(s) you posed were more rhetorical in nature so I’m not even going to attempt to discern why Indy hasn’t gone down the road of having a casino.
I will only say that Indy doesn’t need a casino to thrive - its unnecessary. Furthermore I don’t think a casino is going to make any community thrive - besides Vegas that place seems to do fairly well. I’m not sure Terre Haute is going to get many opportunities or chances like this one to attract visitors to our community. As Mike or someone above eluded too - this is the crossroads of america and a lot of traffic passes through here. If you give them a reason to stop and gamble and they do nothing else in this town besides gamble - how is that a bad thing? They were just going to keep on keeping on without the casino in the first place...
It’s possible crime will go up - we have a very generously funded police & Fire departments. I’m just not buying the crime argument when you’ve got a national meth epidemic going on. Them people on that meth aren’t going to stop doing meth to come gamble. Crime is a constant and if the Police and Fire got to work a little harder to earn that generous compensation plan then so be it.
As for income - as I already said I’m not an expert on tax law and I was a pretty poor economics student in college. So I’m not going to be able to refute anything when it comed to income/tax/economics effects either positive or negative if a casino comes here.
I’ve got buddies who like to go to the Evansville ISU game every year because they want to gamble after the game. It gives them a reason to go to an away game that they wouldn’t otherwise have gone to. I’ve got to think some our regional driving distance schools fan bases might be more likely to come to a game at the HC if they have another entertainment option like a casino available.
One of the biggest complaints ISU gets everytime we host the NCAA XC Nationals has nothing to do with the course, parking,
how the meet is ran etc. It’s two things - lack of hotel rooms as some teams have to stay in Indy. I believe this situation is a couple years away from being resolved. And the second thing is “Terre Haute is boring” for fans traveling across the country to watch a Cross Country meet - they’re looking for additional entertainment options and again the casino provides that.
I rest my case - if it happens great I will be in support of it. If it doesn’t then so be it. I will think it’s because of some biases against us in an attempt to continue to suppress our ability to grow as a community.
Last edited:
This casino could be a great catalyst for further economic development in the TH area. IF the community leaders look at it as one piece of a larger plan to diversify the area’s base, and not the be all, end all plan itself.
I agree with Twitch, it will simply give folks another reason to come to Terre Haute. Just don’t stop with a casino. Also, go after some manufacturing, some regional HQ’s, maybe create a startup incubator. Each one just a piece of a larger puzzle. Diversify the economy.
I agree with Twitch, it will simply give folks another reason to come to Terre Haute. Just don’t stop with a casino. Also, go after some manufacturing, some regional HQ’s, maybe create a startup incubator. Each one just a piece of a larger puzzle. Diversify the economy.
That is the key with me..if it is hey we are getting a casino! Now let's watch the money roll into the haute!!
.then I am pretty meh on the idea if not a little against it. If they put it in a location that will revitalize part of the town or is part of a bigger development scheme then I'm all for it.
One thing I'd like to correct is the misnomer that there's "nothing to do in T.H." That's not true at all. T.H. offers many things that larger cities offer. The activities might not be the same caliber, nor the same quantity of variation, but T.H. has more going on then people are willing to admit. I call it the "ocean effect." People who live near the ocean hardly ever visit because the ocean has become mundane, even though what they have is special. T.H. offers year round sports, plays, art shows, conventions, concerts, parks, and 100's of activities. No person will lead you by hand to everything it is up to the individual to seek them out.
The one thing I’d like to correct is that my comment was actually “Terre Haute is boring” so if you’re going to quote it atleast quote it correctly. Furthermore these were comments of visitors - not my sentiments or comments that I even agree with.
But thanks for the “ocean effect” lesson...
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
[h=2]Your Indiana Legislature...
Gambling
Bill: Senate Bill 552
Hearing: House Ways and Means Committee on Tuesday
Background: This would allow the two Gary casinos to relocate—albeit with some conditions attached—and would legalize gambling on professional and college sporting events.
What to watch for: Whether the $100 million fee to move one of the Gary casinos elsewhere in the city is reduced—or even increased. The committee also will need to address the tax rate for sports betting, and lawmakers could reinsert language to allow mobile sports betting.[/h]
Gambling
Bill: Senate Bill 552
Hearing: House Ways and Means Committee on Tuesday
Background: This would allow the two Gary casinos to relocate—albeit with some conditions attached—and would legalize gambling on professional and college sporting events.
What to watch for: Whether the $100 million fee to move one of the Gary casinos elsewhere in the city is reduced—or even increased. The committee also will need to address the tax rate for sports betting, and lawmakers could reinsert language to allow mobile sports betting.[/h]
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...sino-bill-because-gaming-investor/3480298002/
This thing is not going to come and go quietly...
I will give you the cliff-notes version but I highly recommend you read - quite interesting:
Basically - Gibson/CIB (Convention Center) reached out to Indiana Speaker of the House Brian Bosma (Also an attorney) to seek legal council for the CIB. Bosma reached out to House Ethics committee and was hired by CIB on June 20. (uhhh obviously this was a very intentional hire)
Bosma skipped the House vote regarding the casino (separate project) last week - basically for conflict of interest reasons.
The insinuation (if you read between the lines) is that Gibson has been "buying" influence within the House by hiring Bosma for CIB legal affairs. Bosma obviously has pull and he obviously talks to other politicians who were going to vote. (Politics is hazy - shocker right?)
Bosma's (& I'm sure Gibson) take is "no no" - these are two separate projects and other than Gibson's initial involvement on the CIB the two projects are completely unrelated to one another. Gibson is no longer on the CIB Board and thus has little influence on that on-going effort.
My personal take (not what I know but what I think I know):
One of two things is driving this - mostly likely is big money (French Lick, Evansville, Indianapolis bias) is in the ear of the Indianapolis Star and feeding them a lot of information and trying to get this casino project stopped. Someone is doing a lot of homework and going to great lengths to halt this entire project. The second possibility that I'm not so quick to dismiss the idea that someone local isn't involved in trying to get this effort stopped. Someone local would certainly be more up-to-speed than anyone else in the state on the CIB/Convention Center and Gibson's involvement in both projects. Then again, most of this information is public record and wouldn't have been too difficult for someone with a little time to connect the dots on. It seems to be more of an attack on Bosma's past dealings than anything else??
In addition - the article pretty much tells me what I already know. Gibson stands to make a lot of money on the casino project and potentially the convention center / hotel. Whatever... It takes money to make money - you want to play in the big leagues with these guys then go be an entrepreneur, take some risk and see if you two can hit it big. It's quite obvious all of this has a lot of moving parts and that Gibson has made some very strategic chess moves in the last couple of years. Had they dug a little deeper they would see that Gibson also invested in RJL Solutions which has many functions one of which is advocating for organizations political needs at the State and National level. Not surprisingly RJL has been involved in the casino project https://www.terrehautechamber.com/c...ce-terre-haute-is-all-in-initiative-web-site/
I don't really find any of this new information all that concerning - but I do find it very interesting. I could be wrong - but I've followed all of this with Indiana State, Hulman Center, State Funding, Convention Center, Casino, CIB, Jail (Anything else) pretty closely. Thoughts?!
This thing is not going to come and go quietly...
I will give you the cliff-notes version but I highly recommend you read - quite interesting:
Basically - Gibson/CIB (Convention Center) reached out to Indiana Speaker of the House Brian Bosma (Also an attorney) to seek legal council for the CIB. Bosma reached out to House Ethics committee and was hired by CIB on June 20. (uhhh obviously this was a very intentional hire)
Bosma skipped the House vote regarding the casino (separate project) last week - basically for conflict of interest reasons.
The insinuation (if you read between the lines) is that Gibson has been "buying" influence within the House by hiring Bosma for CIB legal affairs. Bosma obviously has pull and he obviously talks to other politicians who were going to vote. (Politics is hazy - shocker right?)
Bosma's (& I'm sure Gibson) take is "no no" - these are two separate projects and other than Gibson's initial involvement on the CIB the two projects are completely unrelated to one another. Gibson is no longer on the CIB Board and thus has little influence on that on-going effort.
My personal take (not what I know but what I think I know):
One of two things is driving this - mostly likely is big money (French Lick, Evansville, Indianapolis bias) is in the ear of the Indianapolis Star and feeding them a lot of information and trying to get this casino project stopped. Someone is doing a lot of homework and going to great lengths to halt this entire project. The second possibility that I'm not so quick to dismiss the idea that someone local isn't involved in trying to get this effort stopped. Someone local would certainly be more up-to-speed than anyone else in the state on the CIB/Convention Center and Gibson's involvement in both projects. Then again, most of this information is public record and wouldn't have been too difficult for someone with a little time to connect the dots on. It seems to be more of an attack on Bosma's past dealings than anything else??
In addition - the article pretty much tells me what I already know. Gibson stands to make a lot of money on the casino project and potentially the convention center / hotel. Whatever... It takes money to make money - you want to play in the big leagues with these guys then go be an entrepreneur, take some risk and see if you two can hit it big. It's quite obvious all of this has a lot of moving parts and that Gibson has made some very strategic chess moves in the last couple of years. Had they dug a little deeper they would see that Gibson also invested in RJL Solutions which has many functions one of which is advocating for organizations political needs at the State and National level. Not surprisingly RJL has been involved in the casino project https://www.terrehautechamber.com/c...ce-terre-haute-is-all-in-initiative-web-site/
I don't really find any of this new information all that concerning - but I do find it very interesting. I could be wrong - but I've followed all of this with Indiana State, Hulman Center, State Funding, Convention Center, Casino, CIB, Jail (Anything else) pretty closely. Thoughts?!
Last edited:
Oh and F everyone trying to hold Terre Haute back and keep us right where we are today... Don’t give Terre Haute a chance.
Terre Haute tried to go about this a different way 3 years ago and it never made it out of a single flipping committee. Sooo
Terre Haute tried to go about this a different way 3 years ago and it never made it out of a single flipping committee. Sooo
You don't mess with La Cosa Nostra! The mob is fine with where the casino money is right now!!! No need to move anything. Besides, Gary is so much closer to Chicago!
59-36 Casino bill has passed.
Bill is now awaiting a signature from the Governor. Then will be in the hands of Vigo Co. voters in 2020.
A big win for Terre Haute & Vigo Co. tonight. Purchase price of the licensing was lowered to $5 million from what was once $100 million.
Will generate many jobs for a community that has had a difficult time attracting new business and creating employment opportunities.
$100 minimum investment in casino set - meaning its going to be a pretty significant infrastructure investment. Local contractors stand to benefit from this investment. For comparison sake Union Hospital building a $180 million hospital was a transformative contract for several local construction players.
Economic development dollars built into the bill for future commitment from casino benefactors.
Side thought - some have been against Gibson, his business practices and him making plays to benefit himself. Meh. The Gibson family has invested in Terre Haute & Indiana State for years - if this is wildly successful for his family why wouldn’t Terre Haute continue to benefit from his success? Think long and hard about that. If this bill/process proves anything - it speaks to how powerful and what Gibson is thought of in Indianapolis and across the state of Indiana. He’s a powerful player in the state - not just TH/Vigo Co.
Bill is now awaiting a signature from the Governor. Then will be in the hands of Vigo Co. voters in 2020.
A big win for Terre Haute & Vigo Co. tonight. Purchase price of the licensing was lowered to $5 million from what was once $100 million.
Will generate many jobs for a community that has had a difficult time attracting new business and creating employment opportunities.
$100 minimum investment in casino set - meaning its going to be a pretty significant infrastructure investment. Local contractors stand to benefit from this investment. For comparison sake Union Hospital building a $180 million hospital was a transformative contract for several local construction players.
Economic development dollars built into the bill for future commitment from casino benefactors.
Side thought - some have been against Gibson, his business practices and him making plays to benefit himself. Meh. The Gibson family has invested in Terre Haute & Indiana State for years - if this is wildly successful for his family why wouldn’t Terre Haute continue to benefit from his success? Think long and hard about that. If this bill/process proves anything - it speaks to how powerful and what Gibson is thought of in Indianapolis and across the state of Indiana. He’s a powerful player in the state - not just TH/Vigo Co.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
I just hope they put it near downtown, to continue the revitalization of the city core. But wherever, this will be big for TH - as long as govt “leaders” understand that it is simply a PART of an economic development plan, not the end of a plan. They’ve gotta keep developing.
If Gibson builds it, it will be on the east side on 46
Buckhorn
The Starter Level
There are many "power brokers" & lobbyists across the State of Indiana, which is why GAMBLING is now a "legislative process." And it's not just these people who "bend an ear" of IN legislators, who answer to ALL VOTERS.
Thankfully, my local representative from Jasper (Mark Messmer) was the one driving this vehicle home. Given his proximity to TH, French Lick & Evansville, he knew 1st hand the issues which would be raised locally. He also never buckled from the Chicago area casino clout.
Here's a couple E-mails which I forwarded to Messmer, and I'm sure here were hundreds of others who likewise responded in a timely manner to move this thing to fruition.
1 - To:Senator.Messmer
Dear Mark:
I've been following this "political action" via the TH Trib-Star for some time now.
https://www.tribstar.com/news/busin...cle_543ca4a8-5708-11e9-a344-b7b969f78001.html
Initially, E-ville was seeking $20m for a "punitive levy," now the thugs in the Chicago area are seeking to extort $100-150m from Terre Haute? This is absurd. Perhaps WC Indiana needs to attach a "Reparations Clause" of $200m for the damages that resulted from Chicago crime mobsters during "Prohibition," where Terre Haute became a popular "playground" between 1917-33, creating the "Sin City" psychological image which has burdened TH to this day!
2 - To:Senator.Messmer
Dear Mark:
The bidding process is extremely convoluted. Why wouldn't LOCAL OWNERSHIP of the TH Casino be preferred to an out-of state owner? In Terre Haute's case, Greg Gibson has an outstanding business reputation and has worked hard to get a casino to TH. Can ANYONE say the same for the likely "other" bidders? Sorry, but this doesn't make "cents" (sense)...which is the underlying PURPOSE of this casino to the TH people.
The IN Legislature should REWARD in-state business character by paving an inside path to success, similar to a point system used by federal employment.
I'm amazed at the "pork barrel" attitudes surrounding this issue...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, don't forget that Gibson created a f/t lobbyist for this role (Rachel Leslie), after the CIB efforts to coordinate ISU/TH/Vigo failed miserably.
Last edited:
Will it pass in Vigo Co.?
Debatable... initial construction/renovation, sure... long-term, full-time? Jury is out; the casino industry LOVE 'slots', they're not as big a fan when it comes to 'table games'
Why?
Slots don't need a "living wage"
Slots can't / won't unionize/bargain collectively
Slots don't need time off when their kid is sick, when their elderly parent wanders awway
Slots don't complain about too few, too many hours
long-term the State of Indiana will not realize a legit bump in casino dollars; what they will experience is a shifting of casino revenues origination location...
maybe more $$ from Terre Haute, fewer from the other areas... Indiana could/would experience a 'casino arms race' much like Vegas has
I'm betting a casino in The Haute will do for it what ALL the casinos in Atlantic City did for it