Change in Athletic Department?

WANTED: Passionate Sycamore Fanatics. That You?

Register NOW to join our community of die-hard Sycamore fans.

Register Log in
Second time in 6 months our athletic department has had the most momentum going in years to only have a momentum killer brought to us by our own forces.

How does this affect our basketball program moving forward this season? Will it be a distraction? Does our athletic department have any support and what message does this send? What’s athletics at ISU’s look like in six months?

Those are all questions we shouldn’t have to focus on when we are having an NCAA Tournament caliber basketball team and coming into a baseball season where the expectations are high.

I don’t know Clinkscales and had no interactions with him. I’ve heard good things about him and bad things. I’ve seen good qualities and bad qualities. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. But as supporter of ISU athletics, he ultimately cared and was working to make ISU athletics a contender. He made tough decisions to reboot the basketball program and we are seeing the results today. He worked to retain and provide the most with his resources by funding a raise for JS. He made our baseball coach the highest paid coach in the Valley, which was deserving. He seemed to understand the resources available and never let that be a reason for wins and loses. Expectations were to win with the resources we have. That’s the way it should be. Wins ultimately create more resources and I’ve heard the baseball program has experienced that with the results of their 2023 season. I expect the same for basketball with the success of this season. But to be good, we have to have stability and consistent success.

Do I think our AD job is attractive, yes. It has a basketball team that is thriving with one of the best upcoming coaches. A baseball program that hosted a regional and went to a super regional with the best coach in the Valley. A track and field program that’s won MVC conferences in the previous years. A cross country program that has had conference success and access to an NCAA Championship course. A women’s basketball program that is trying to be rebooted to pass success. A women’s soccer program that competed with a first year head coach. A softball program that’s been relevant. A women’s swim team that’s newer but competes with other MVC programs. A volleyball program that is being rebuilt but has had the most successful season a couple years ago under a coach who took off for an assistant job at Florida State. The biggest concern for this job is what we all know and it’s football and how do you handle it.
 
Last edited:

Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
How soon things change
A few months ago baseballs was the hot sport and the bb coach was the hot topic
Now mbb is is hot and JS and I doumean Jon Sherman, is the hot property
Take my ford for it, a combined salary of mbb and AD is not enough to keep JS at ISU
Secondly a new President would not like to have a coach/AD that makes more than them
 
Svisupa1 said:
How soon things change
A few months ago baseballs was the hot sport and the bb coach was the hot topic
Now mbb is is hot and JS and I doumean Jon Sherman, is the hot property
Take my ford for it, a combined salary of mbb and AD is not enough to keep JS at ISU
Secondly a new President would not like to have a coach/AD that makes more than them
Click to expand...

You have a wild imagination, look it up, a ton of coaches are the highest paid persons at the college level. Take a deep breath.
 
EvilleSycamore said:
A combined coach AD is NOT the answer nor is it good. Why would you want to distract HCJS from basketball with the tasks of the other sports. The old saying to many Irons in the fire comes to mind with this.
Click to expand...

Right... It's not the 70's anymore. Both jobs are full time endeavors not to mention it would be a potential conflict of interest and there is no way you could remove bias/favoritism from your own program.
 
SycamoreTree said:
You have a wild imagination, look it up, a ton of coaches are the highest paid persons at the college level. Take a deep breath.
Click to expand...
Correct, but they don't have Curtis as president. I'm old enough to remember when NBA coaches made more than players too.
 

Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
TreeTop said:
Quick reminder that on Sept 28, 2022...

"ISU announced Wednesday that Clinkscales received a two-year contract extension that will extend his tenure through June 2025. ISU has an option to extend Clinkscales' contract two years beyond 2025 if it wants to."

Do we actually know (yet) that his leaving is truly the work of our terrible prez Deb?
Click to expand...
Coming back to this point. If he was forced out, I'm sure ISU has to compensate him for the remainder of his contract through 2025. If he is leaving on his own, they most likely would not.
 
bent20 said:
Coming back to this point. If he was forced out, I'm sure ISU has to compensate him for the remainder of his contract through 2025. If he is leaving on his own, they most likely would not.
Click to expand...

Yep, and if you forced me out, you're paying me. Will be interesting to see if there is anything in the Board minutes.
 
Some things that everyone needs to take into consideration...

1. He didn't get forced out without cause - something happened and it wasn't him taking another job I think we've fully established this wasn't him wanting out or leaving for another opportunity. Once again, poor PR work by Indiana State trying to sell us on some bull shit.

2. She is a lame duck President - so the board signing off on her pushing him out is interesting to me. It would almost mean to me that the board was in agreeance with her on whatever she was hoping to accomplish or asking him to do.

3. What's the one or two major decision that this athletic department is faced with right now? (1) How are we going to keep JS and how are we going to capitalize on this national attention that we are getting? (2) What are we going to do with the football program that continues to under perform in the face of budget issues and see point #1. The two are connected now more than ever before given the 11-2 start to the season, ticket sales, press, etc.

4. People are so jaded by her and see the worst in her that they are having trouble putting that aside to further understand the possibilities. It's entirely possible that she wanted to terminate football and she wanted Clink to be a part of that. It's also entirely possible that he agrees that we need to terminate football but he didn't want to be the face of that decision. To that end:

- With her leaving in 6 months she could just simply say, "look this is what we need to do and you as the Athletic Director are going to be the one to deliver it. You can answer to our donors, to the media to our coaches etc. and you can sell it."

- Even if he agreed it needed to go if he has any asperations beyond Indiana State why would he be the one to sell this especially with an outgoing President that everyone despises? She would be the perfect scapegoat but not me if I'm Clink... Again, even if he thinks it's the right decision. But if he doesn't think it's the right decision plenty of opportunity here for the two of them to disagree and this thing to go sideways pretty quickly. Perhaps she wanted to move it to D2, maybe she wanted to move it to the OVC, maybe she wanted him to fire the HC? Plenty of possibilities that should be taken into consideration. A refusal on his part on any of the above could be all she needed...

- If he has any asperations beyond Indiana State to be an AD something he doesn't want on his resume is the AD who terminated a football program. Because the next place he goes football is likely going to be a significant piece of the athletic department. Really hard to look those new coaches/athletes in the face and say hey I support you all when you have a record of doing just the opposite. That sort of a massive decision will become part of his legacy as an AD - bottom-line.

I think it's really easy and naïve to look at this as just another bad move by a President that people despise... Seems like something larger was at play here and before I place my judgement I want to know exactly what that is. Until then, I am going to wait to pass any judgement and I encourage you all to dig deeper to find out what that really is and to keep an open mind.

In saying all this - I am not endorsing this decision by any means. I am saying, I want to know what lead to it - the sort of things I discussed above would need to remain very private. The university would not be able to come out and confirm that any of the above is correct - too many larger implications if it was.
 
Last edited:
I will be euphoric if SSOM's theory is true. I'd even donate to build a Deborah Curtis statue.

I'm just afraid that possibility is a longshot.
 

Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
SycamoreStateofMind said:
Some things that everyone needs to take into consideration...

1. He didn't get forced out without cause - something happened and it wasn't him taking another job I think we've fully established this wasn't him wanting out or leaving for another opportunity. Once again, poor PR work by Indiana State trying to sell us on some bull shit.

2. She is a lame duck President - so the board signing off on her pushing him out is interesting to me. It would almost mean to me that the board was in agreeance with her on whatever she was hoping to accomplish or asking him to do.

3. What's the one or two major decision that this athletic department is faced with right now? (1) How are we going to keep JS and how are we going to capitalize on this national attention that we are getting? (2) What are we going to do with the football program that continues to under perform in the face of budget issues and see point #1. The two are connected now more than ever before given the 11-2 start to the season, ticket sales, press, etc.

4. People are so jaded by her and see the worst in her that they are having trouble putting that aside to further understand the possibilities. It's entirely possible that she wanted to terminate football and she wanted Clink to be a part of that. It's also entirely possible that he agrees that we need to terminate football but he didn't want to be the face of that decision. To that end:

- With her leaving in 6 months she could just simply say, "look this is what we need to do and you as the Athletic Director are going to be the one to deliver it. You can answer to our donors, to the media to our coaches etc. and you can sell it."

- Even if he agreed it needed to go if he has any asperations beyond Indiana State why would he be the one to sell this especially with an outgoing President that everyone despises? She would be the perfect scapegoat but not me if I'm Clink... Again, even if he thinks it's the right decision. But if he doesn't think it's the right decision plenty of opportunity here for the two of them to disagree and this thing to go sideways pretty quickly. Perhaps she wanted to move it to D2, maybe she wanted to move it to the OVC, maybe she wanted him to fire the HC? Plenty of possibilities that should be taken into consideration.

- If he has any asperations beyond Indiana State to be an AD something he doesn't want on his resume is the AD who terminated a football program. Because the next place he goes football is likely going to be a significant piece of the athletic department. Really hard to look those new coaches/athletes in the face and say hey I support you all when you have a record of doing just the opposite. That sort of a massive decision will become part of his legacy as an AD - bottom-line.

I think it's really easy and naïve to look at this as just another bad move by a President that people despise... Seems like something larger was at play here and before I place my judgement I want to know exactly what that is. Until then, I am going to wait to pass any judgement and I encourage you all to dig deeper to find out what that really is and to keep an open mind.

In saying all this - I am not endorsing this decision by any means. I am saying, I want to know what lead to it - the sort of things I discussed above would need to remain very private. The university would not be able to come out and confirm that any of the above is correct - too many larger implications if it was.
Click to expand...
Twitch - you may be right on all of this, but my dislike for the Deb is so overwhelming I breezed right past these points. To Bodas point some clarification may come when and if there is a buy-out on his contract, or if they invoke a "just-clause" from his contract.
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
Some things that everyone needs to take into consideration...

1. He didn't get forced out without cause - something happened and it wasn't him taking another job I think we've fully established this wasn't him wanting out or leaving for another opportunity. Once again, poor PR work by Indiana State trying to sell us on some bull shit.

2. She is a lame duck President - so the board signing off on her pushing him out is interesting to me. It would almost mean to me that the board was in agreeance with her on whatever she was hoping to accomplish or asking him to do.

3. What's the one or two major decision that this athletic department is faced with right now? (1) How are we going to keep JS and how are we going to capitalize on this national attention that we are getting? (2) What are we going to do with the football program that continues to under perform in the face of budget issues and see point #1. The two are connected now more than ever before given the 11-2 start to the season, ticket sales, press, etc.

4. People are so jaded by her and see the worst in her that they are having trouble putting that aside to further understand the possibilities. It's entirely possible that she wanted to terminate football and she wanted Clink to be a part of that. It's also entirely possible that he agrees that we need to terminate football but he didn't want to be the face of that decision. To that end:

- With her leaving in 6 months she could just simply say, "look this is what we need to do and you as the Athletic Director are going to be the one to deliver it. You can answer to our donors, to the media to our coaches etc. and you can sell it."

- Even if he agreed it needed to go if he has any asperations beyond Indiana State why would he be the one to sell this especially with an outgoing President that everyone despises? She would be the perfect scapegoat but not me if I'm Clink... Again, even if he thinks it's the right decision. But if he doesn't think it's the right decision plenty of opportunity here for the two of them to disagree and this thing to go sideways pretty quickly. Perhaps she wanted to move it to D2, maybe she wanted to move it to the OVC, maybe she wanted him to fire the HC? Plenty of possibilities that should be taken into consideration. A refusal on his part on any of the above could be all she needed...

- If he has any asperations beyond Indiana State to be an AD something he doesn't want on his resume is the AD who terminated a football program. Because the next place he goes football is likely going to be a significant piece of the athletic department. Really hard to look those new coaches/athletes in the face and say hey I support you all when you have a record of doing just the opposite. That sort of a massive decision will become part of his legacy as an AD - bottom-line.

I think it's really easy and naïve to look at this as just another bad move by a President that people despise... Seems like something larger was at play here and before I place my judgement I want to know exactly what that is. Until then, I am going to wait to pass any judgement and I encourage you all to dig deeper to find out what that really is and to keep an open mind.

In saying all this - I am not endorsing this decision by any means. I am saying, I want to know what lead to it - the sort of things I discussed above would need to remain very private. The university would not be able to come out and confirm that any of the above is correct - too many larger implications if it was.
Click to expand...
I've kind of been thinking along these same lines. If I were a betting man I'd say it has something to do with a status of the football program decision looming. We'll see....
 
Last edited:
Svisupa1 said:
How soon things change
A few months ago baseballs was the hot sport and the bb coach was the hot topic
Now mbb is is hot and JS and I doumean Jon Sherman, is the hot property
Take my ford for it, a combined salary of mbb and AD is not enough to keep JS at ISU
Secondly a new President would not like to have a coach/AD that makes more than them
Click to expand...

What type of Ford you driving these days? I might take you up on that if it's an F150 with less than 30k miles. I've been needing a new truck - more of a Chevy guy if you know what I mean - but given that you offered here I might have to oblige.
 
From the TribStar article...

“There will be more information [Wednesday],” Martha Thomson, university communication director, said in an email Tuesday afternoon.

In the immortal words of Judge Smails, "Well, we're waiting!"
 
I guess SMWC had its slogan wrong all of these years. I guess it should have been "Aspere Higher" so its slogan 'judgement' was off course and required better judgment in the selection of its slogan.

(- Even if he agreed it needed to go if he has any asperations beyond Indiana State
- If he has any asperations beyond Indiana State to be an AD something he doesn't )

(my judgement I want to know exactly what that is. Until then, I am going to wait to pass any judgement.)

Don't feel badly. I got a missive from Notre Dame a few days ago with mangled grammar and I fired off a reply to that as well. And those folks are being paid to publish. I admit it is a bit of fun to see how many different ways spelling and grammar can be abused.
 

Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
DyedBlue said:
I guess SMWC had its slogan wrong all of these years. I guess it should have been "Aspere Higher" so its slogan 'judgement' was off course and required better judgment in the selection of its slogan.

(- Even if he agreed it needed to go if he has any asperations beyond Indiana State
- If he has any asperations beyond Indiana State to be an AD something he doesn't )

(my judgement I want to know exactly what that is. Until then, I am going to wait to pass any judgement.)

Don't feel badly. I got a missive from Notre Dame a few days ago with mangled grammar and I fired off a reply to that as well. And those folks are being paid to publish. I admit it is a bit of fun to see how many different ways spelling and grammar can be abused.
Click to expand...

So you are going to nit pick my grammar and spelling? That's your thing? I made some spelling errors or auto-corrected to the wrong thing and you are going to point those out? Got it... Nice take!

Edit: I guess I did the same thing with the "Ford" comment. I was just trying to be funny - it wasn't personal. Maybe you were being funny as well? If I missed the humor in that sorry. It was a long post to begin with so I admittedly didn't proof it more than maybe once really quickly.
 
I know about as much as anyone else, but I'm sad to see Clink go. It will be interesting to find out what happened behind the scenes as we continue to learn more over the coming days and weeks (and perhaps months?).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top