sycamore tuff
The Wade Level
Just one person and he gave you a
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[February 19, 2025] Indiana State (13-14) vs Evansville (10-17)
- Thread starter Jason Svoboda
- Start date
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I thought there was a lawsuit to not count D2 years already in motion. What lawsuit has NCAA won regarding things players want? That's why I said that about Teel. If that is not correct, then I apologize and obviously what I said would not be accurate about his eligibility.
Is it possible to recruit a couple of defensive stoppers & others who know how to play defense in the portal? Graves needs to focus more on that end of the floor & if he doesn't bring in a good defensive coach on staff for next season .... his dream job may not be a career destination? ISU is not IU and able to buy out & change coaches at any moment but contract extensions need to be evaluated so we don't get into another "Lansing sweetheart deal". Our new AD may not be so lenient in that regard hopefully. No way saying Graves is not our guy but some changes need to be made on selecting players & staff for next season.
I don’t think it was successful. I just know he’s not eligible and they don’t have hope that he will be. And the bottom line, even if he was eligible he’s played himself into money probably north of $200k and we will not be able to afford him. He’d be gone either way.
Please stop with this. See above. Even if eligible he’s hitting the portal and getting paid. He’s not playing for Indiana State next season.
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When you play well you get flowers. It’s one of the shittest programs in the country and we’ve absolutely dominated them over the last 15 years. They haven’t deserved any nice words from me.
Right, if he is eligible, he's gone because we can't afford him.....which is what I was saying.
In all fairness you also suggested that we won’t be able to “afford” JD and Camp. Which isn’t exactly the case.
I think people would be better off if they quit putting this in the context of what we can and can’t afford. It’s all about value and what you’re willing to pay. You can’t overpay.
Camp Wagner might get a look because he’s got a high ceiling mostly because he’s a 6’5 kid that can shoot it. But he’s also abysmal defensively - he wouldn’t be playing on a lot of teams in the country because of his inability to defend.
JD while vastly improved still isn’t great defensively, can’t finish on the right side of the rim and needs to continue to work on his shot/FT shooting. He’s also undersized - if you bring him on you almost assuredly have to be willing to go small and play him at the 5 because he can’t guard a 4.
You all can put it into whatever perspective you want but I don’t look at it like what we can and can’t afford, it’s a moneyball situation here and it always will be. Value > Over Spending
I don't disagree at all with what you are saying. We have to find value here, totally get that. I feel like we are arguing semantics though. If they go portalling to test the market and another team "values" them at 20 to 50,000 or more above what we do, they are gone because we can't AFFORD that "market value." With our moneyball style system we likely never keep a team together....unless we get legislation saying contracts are 2 year deals or something. This is because what you said....we can't overpay, but lots of other teams do and if that happens, they're gone. I am not trying to be a smartass or argumentative, just sucks this is our reality and I can't do anything about it....so I vent and complain.
If you are a player in the situation of Camp/JD and can get $50k from Indiana State and most assuredly have a role or starting job guaranteed to you next year or go to the portal and get $100k you absolutely don’t take the deal if you if you are getting sound advice.
Because if you return on the $50k deal and continue to develop - have an even better season then you’re looking at a max deal to play out your college career some place.
Neither player is looking at life changing money this off season they are a season away from a big payday all things constant in the NIL landscape and if they can put it together. If they take the $100k and get buried on the bench or in a bad situation they might not get paid ever again. End up in the portal after your shitty Junior year and you have no value.
And to be honest if we’re working with a budget of day $325k we can absolutely “afford” Camp and JD some of you are presenting it as if we can’t afford those players which is inaccurate.
*Also worth pointing out that JD is really happy in Terre Haute and Indiana State. I don’t think loyalty is entirely dead and JD is a player who wants to come back to Indiana State next season that counts for something.
Because if you return on the $50k deal and continue to develop - have an even better season then you’re looking at a max deal to play out your college career some place.
Neither player is looking at life changing money this off season they are a season away from a big payday all things constant in the NIL landscape and if they can put it together. If they take the $100k and get buried on the bench or in a bad situation they might not get paid ever again. End up in the portal after your shitty Junior year and you have no value.
And to be honest if we’re working with a budget of day $325k we can absolutely “afford” Camp and JD some of you are presenting it as if we can’t afford those players which is inaccurate.
*Also worth pointing out that JD is really happy in Terre Haute and Indiana State. I don’t think loyalty is entirely dead and JD is a player who wants to come back to Indiana State next season that counts for something.
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They better enjoy Pozzato this year. He’ll be somewhere else next year.
I've always viewed Illinois State as our main rival. They're the other "ISU" and one of the few schools we play in all of our major sports.
It might be a generational thing with me though. The older fans tend to view Evansville and Ball State as our rivals. In my lifetime Evansville basketball has usually been so awful that losing to them is kind of embarrassing, and the one game a year against Ball State in basketball (and usually no games in football & baseball) just doesn't move the needle much for me.
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Thank you for this well thought out post. I guess my disdain for watching players jumping at every extra dollar they can get has jaded my view some. If JD truly wants to come back, thats refreshing and will help next year's squad. JD gave an interview earlier this year while he was walking on campus and said something to the affect that he wanted to come back 1 more year to prove that he could play. Maybe it was just the choice of words or my poor interpretation, but it had the sound of a guy who was just wanted to prove something before moving on. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, that is great. I don't do a good job of explaining myself fully, so my apologies. I think we have the money to keep JD and Wags, but we don't have enough to keep everyone we would want, if they were to get extra eligibility of course. I was going on the preface that Teel will have eligibility (however wrong that may be, but it's why I said what I said) but chooses to move on. Does that make guys like JD and Wagner decide to move on also, because the best player left, leaving a huge hole? My assumption is they would go after a little more money and try to find a team poised to make the NCAA's. Instead of staying for possibly another rebuild. I hope I'm wrong and the longer I sit on all this the more clear headed I get. I'm realizing most of my poor outlook is tainted by my frustration of loosing a key game against an opponent who clearly out worked us, which should never happen, at home especially. I think I just need to step back and let what happens, happen. Not much I can do about it all.
Most of the high profile NBA players are from other countries or one and done players where you have to look up where they went to college. Quietly college basketball is losing relevance and popularity according to media reports. With well over half of the NCAA college programs being mid majors or lower it give the appearance of the minor leagues with the majors ready to swoop in with their bags of cash and practically automatic at large tournament exposure if they are better than 500. I team like the Sycamores is in a quandary about what to do to build off a rebuilding year. Why play underclass players who if they improve will get notice from the majors and could leave? If you play only seniors you are in a constant rebuild and it will get you fired. A solution could be like Northern Iowa, recruit local. Maybe a 200 mile radius. Recruit Indianapolis area especially hard. High school basketball is not near what is was in the single class era as far as popularity and interest but if you can get local kids they might be more likely to stay. With the current NIL laws it will only get worse.
I don't know... I have not been involved in any specific # conversations so don't take this as gospel - this is just my opinion on value.
I think I'd probably throw $40,000 at JD. I'd throw $30,00 at Camp. I'd throw $20,000 to Walker. $10k to Vorst.
That leaves a good amount of money for him to go out and get a couple combo guards in the portal that can score it at a high level. But if Camp or JD want north of $50k I'd probably tell them - test the market.
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Who is Waggs?
Probably meant Walker
Wagner?