Hulman Center Development Update - Wed, 6/8/16

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"The proposed configuration of a renovated Hulman Center is 10,200 seats with 1,200 seats in an attached convention center, he said."
Sounds like HC remains at 10,200 and the capacity of the convention center is 1,200? Something seems off, the 1,200 number. Does that mean the Hulman Center can be opened up to seat 11,400? The 1,200 number for the convention seems low. I guess we will find out later when the renderings are released?
 
Or maybe it's 9000 plus 1200 (10200) when part of the convention center is opened at the top?
Agree... suites would be nice and would be a profit center. A Bird's Nest area and/or Wooden Pyramid area would be cool. The Wooden family apparently has success teaching business leaders how to be better leaders via the Pyramid of Success and I am OK with the Wooden family marketing to businesses in the center - some type of collaboration?
I think it's very difficult to make seating less than it is with state funding involved and this project kinda being about serving the Wabash Valley area. Expect ISU population to increase to about 20k in 10 years. A large venue will be needed for graduations and ability to attract more formidable concerts etc. With a campus population of 17-20k TH will have capital to attract bigger name performers, correct? And maybe they can drop a curtain/partition to make games more intimate?
 
southernindianaballer said:
Or maybe it's 9000 plus 1200 (10200) when part of the convention center is opened at the top?
Agree... suites would be nice and would be a profit center. A Bird's Nest area and/or Wooden Pyramid area would be cool. The Wooden family apparently has success teaching business leaders how to be better leaders via the Pyramid of Success and I am OK with the Wooden family marketing to businesses in the center - some type of collaboration?
I think it's very difficult to make seating less than it is with state funding involved and this project kinda being about serving the Wabash Valley area. Expect ISU population to increase to about 20k in 10 years. A large venue will be needed for graduations and ability to attract more formidable concerts etc. With a campus population of 17-20k TH will have capital to attract bigger name performers, correct? And maybe they can drop a curtain/partition to make games more intimate?
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Now that's the stepping "outside of the box" thinking I like...covers up the stench of the 25 yr. Cliff Lambert HC mismanagement, where creativity was STIFLED.
 
BankShot said:
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to average ISU attendance @ HC MINUS the Bird Era to get a "reasonable" attendance projection...always having 5,000+ empty seats reflects on our program/University. Institutional "self-actualization" is fiscally prudent and eliminates WASTEFUL spending.

BTW, I always thought it was exciting when it was DIFFICULT to get a ticket into the Arena during "alphabetical" rotation of games years! Even during THAT era, 2/3 of the student body ignored ISU Basketball.

BTW, there are benefits to SCARCITY - it's called VALUE!
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I'd just point out it isn't an ISU issue -- sure our numbers may not be great, but college athletics attendance is dwindling in damn near most of college athletics. Only 40 Division I schools have average attendance over 10,200 and the entire D1 average is 4,744. We were at average attendance of 3672 this year, down yet again.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I'd just point out it isn't an ISU issue -- sure our numbers may not be great, but college athletics attendance is dwindling in damn near most of college athletics. Only 40 Division I schools have average attendance over 10,200 and the entire D1 average is 4,744. We were at average attendance of 3672 this year, down yet again.
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So if this is the trend, how does it justify 10,200 seats? Lately, most music concerts @ HC have "theater-like" seating of less than 4k...which seems to indicate that the #'s are down in this entertainment venue as well. Why have a facility that will be "sold out" once (1) in a lifetime?
 

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BankShot said:
So if this is the trend, how does it justify 10,200 seats? Lately, most music concerts @ HC have "theater-like" seating of less than 4k...which seems to indicate that the #'s are down in this entertainment venue as well. Why have a facility that will be "sold out" once (1) in a lifetime?
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Good question. Whomever is in charge of the multi-use aspect needs to have firm numbers for all events hosted there in the last 3-5-7 years. If a country concert is the only thing to sell it out every once in awhile, they need to drop seating in favor of other options/configuration. You're also right about seat scarcity.

As for graduations mentioned earlier, you can have them elsewhere or have multiple flights.
 
I disagree... 10k+ is the way to go. Don't set limits on the future, build for success. Just because the recent past may be a failure you don't build for that. There are other options and configurations for multiple attendance needs that likely can be a simple set up methodology for maintenance workers. As a tax payer I would be pissed if we set limits on growth and success. You can seat 10k+ and still have an intimate basketball setting. It happens all the time. Build for greatness, build for success. Don't build for recent failure and recent history. We as Trees, expect better... and please don't reply with the reality crap. Reality is if the right people work hard and don't accept failure then the reality changes. Did anyone go to EVV for the ISU game? Very nice marketing for the game, decent team, and decent crowd. Ford Center has a draw back or two... only 3k students and off campus. If they can make lemonade so can we.
 
southernindianaballer said:
I disagree... 10k+ is the way to go. Don't set limits on the future, build for success. Just because the recent past may be a failure you don't build for that. There are other options and configurations for multiple attendance needs that likely can be a simple set up methodology for maintenance workers. As a tax payer I would be pissed if we set limits on growth and success. You can seat 10k+ and still have an intimate basketball setting. It happens all the time. Build for greatness, build for success. Don't build for recent failure and recent history. We as Trees, expect better... and please don't reply with the reality crap. Reality is if the right people work hard and don't accept failure then the reality changes. Did anyone go to EVV for the ISU game? Very nice marketing for the game, decent team, and decent crowd. Ford Center has a draw back or two... only 3k students and off campus. If they can make lemonade so can we.
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Evansville averaged 5147 this year. With a winning, stacked senior laden team. Let's not make up bullshit to try to fit your narrative, ok?

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2016.pdf
 
southernindianaballer said:
I disagree... 10k+ is the way to go. Don't set limits on the future, build for success. Just because the recent past may be a failure you don't build for that. There are other options and configurations for multiple attendance needs that likely can be a simple set up methodology for maintenance workers. As a tax payer I would be pissed if we set limits on growth and success. You can seat 10k+ and still have an intimate basketball setting. It happens all the time. Build for greatness, build for success. Don't build for recent failure and recent history. We as Trees, expect better... and please don't reply with the reality crap. Reality is if the right people work hard and don't accept failure then the reality changes. Did anyone go to EVV for the ISU game? Very nice marketing for the game, decent team, and decent crowd. Ford Center has a draw back or two... only 3k students and off campus. If they can make lemonade so can we.
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I watched a number of UE games this past season on ESPN3, and considering the fact that the '15-16 squad was the best UE's had in 2 decades, I wasn't too impressed with either ATTENDANCE or the level of enthusiasm @ Ford Center. In a nutshell, the fiscal dynamics of downtown E-ville/Ford Center & TH/ISU are like night & day.

As far as your statement of "setting limits for growth & success," the seating capacity of HC has little impact on this. If that was the primary consideration, Duke would be playing in a facility the size of Rupp Arena, not an 8k-sized facility.
 
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Respectfully disagree.... UE has more negatives to overcome to fill their stadium than ISU does. Sure the communities are different and in many ways. Also, Duke has little to do with why we would "downsize" a multi use facility meant to serve the Wabash Valley region via tax dollars. Duke was never in a position to downsize. Their success grew organically and I am sure they would never downsize their current stadium from where they are today just to create a "more hectic" environment for ticket acquisition. The cost to downsize would be high. It would not create more demand - just a hectic environment to get tickets to attend events in high demand. Sounds like fun? Ask IU students how they feel about being able to attend a limited number of games - they hate it. Ask Duke fans. I'm guessing they would prefer a larger venue but understand it will never happen due to the history that has been garnered to date.
Versatility, capacity, and preparing for success are the keys to spending tax dollars appropriately in this case - not a reduction in options and capacity. I minor reduction is ok... but 10k to 7k is not a good idea. Just my humble opinion.

BankShot said:
I watched a number of UE games this past season on ESPN3, and considering the fact that the '15-16 squad was the best UE's had in 2 decades, I wasn't too impressed with either ATTENDANCE or the level of enthusiasm @ Ford Center. In a nutshell, the fiscal dynamics of downtown E-ville/Ford Center & TH/ISU are like night & day.

As far as your statement of "setting limits for growth & success," the seating capacity of HC has little impact on this. If that was the primary consideration, Duke would be playing in a facility the size of Rupp Arena, not an 8k-sized facility.
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southernindianaballer said:
Respectfully disagree.... UE has more negatives to overcome to fill their stadium than ISU does. Sure the communities are different and in many ways. Also, Duke has little to do with why we would "downsize" a multi use facility meant to serve the Wabash Valley region via tax dollars. Duke was never in a position to downsize. Their success grew organically and I am sure they would never downsize their current stadium from where they are today just to create a "more hectic" environment for ticket acquisition. The cost to downsize would be high. It would not create more demand - just a hectic environment to get tickets to attend events in high demand. Sounds like fun? Ask IU students how they feel about being able to attend a limited number of games - they hate it. Ask Duke fans. I'm guessing they would prefer a larger venue but understand it will never happen due to the history that has been garnered to date.
Versatility, capacity, and preparing for success are the keys to spending tax dollars appropriately in this case - not a reduction in options and capacity. I minor reduction is ok... but 10k to 7k is not a good idea. Just my humble opinion.
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Can you please lists these negatives that Evansville has that Indiana State doesn't?
 
I would think two negatives that Eville has would be A) their arena is very far from campus and B) they have a very low enrollment.

Now, how big of a negative are these two things? We can debate that all day long, maybe they aren't as much of a negative as one would think, but I do believe they hurt Eville's attendance.
 
Bluethunder said:
I would think two negatives that Eville has would be A) their arena is very far from campus and B) they have a very low enrollment.

Now, how big of a negative are these two things? We can debate that all day long, maybe they aren't as much of a negative as one would think, but I do believe they hurt Eville's attendance.
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Whats the distance between the campus and Ford vs. campus at the old one (Roberts)? Not much of a difference is it?

Agree on the enrollment... Moores Hill College has never had a LARGE enrollment... when was the last time they cracked 5,000 students?

they, like so many else, shoulda stayed in Div II...
 
Bluethunder said:
I would think two negatives that Eville has would be A) their arena is very far from campus and B) they have a very low enrollment.

Now, how big of a negative are these two things? We can debate that all day long, maybe they aren't as much of a negative as one would think, but I do believe they hurt Eville's attendance.
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1) Speaking from 1st hand experience, and as one who once attended Aces games @ Roberts Stadium in mid-60's, it should 1st be recognized that rarely did students ever walk from UE to Roberts Stadium...and this was during the heyday 60's UE's best-ever attendance. Roberts Stadium was 1/2 mile from the UE campus, plus located on a busy 2-lane E-W artery (Division St.) w/o sidewalks & pedestrian lighting. So in essence, UE-Evansville College on-campus fans have ALWAYS driven to their HOME GAMES. I do recall seeing a campus "shuttle bus" departing from Carson Center, periodically.

2) UE "low enrollment" was NEVER a factor before. What is a FACTOR now is that 90% of the students @ UE could give a hoot about UE basketball, focused only on academia and working to pay off student debt, which is considerably higher than ISU.

3) The emergence of USI has undoubtedly cut into market share once dominated by UE. You don't see or hear the "diehards" discussing UE sports anymore in town.

4) Manufacturing is mostly out of town now. Gone are Chrysler, Zenith, Whirlpool, Arkla, George Koch & Sons and other post -WWII companies that employed thousands and were fertile ground for sports enthusiasm in E-ville. Demographics have scattered the population, destroying any heartfelt alliance to UE.
 
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BankShot makes some good points. I will add, current UE enrollment is about 2,500 & the Ford Center is an approximate 10 minute drive from campus. UE game attendance was better than ISU but I know they market the crap out of the games to get what they do. Frankly, UE game attendance is not great but it had a fair improvement last year likely due to a better than normal team. I just "know" with ISU enrollment where it is, on campus stadium, good marketing, hard work, enticement & encentives we can do much better with attendence. Suites would be sweet too.
 

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southernindianaballer said:
I just "know" with ISU enrollment where it is, on campus stadium, good marketing, hard work, enticement & encentives we can do much better with attendance. Suites would be sweet too.
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What in the world?? Do you attend games? Do you give tickets away? Do you invite people to games with you? Are you hosting viewing parties in other parts of the state if you can't attend games locally? Are you inviting friends over to your house to watch away games? Are you going on road trips? Are you going to holiday tournaments? Are you going to Arch Madness? In other words are you doing your part? Those are the questions I personally ask myself before I start tossing around ideas to Indiana State with regards to attendance. If you are doing all of those things then great - please feel free to continue on! Too many people want to be critical of Indiana State and they are not doing anything personally to build excitement and develop fans. It takes all of us - we shouldn't rely on Indiana State to build excitement or get people in the doors, that hasn't been a successful strategy in the past and it will not be one for the future.

ISU students do not attend basketball games - they have only attended in the past when the Sycamores have been winning and even when that happens the students are either on break or go home on weekends.

Stadium is on campus and it doesn't matter...

Good marketing? What does that look like to you? The best marketing is playing winning basketball the rest seems to take care of its self. You can't market a shitty product - I think we've posted a lot of ideas over the years on things they can do to better market Indiana State Basketball locally. Personally I think it has more to do with creating pride among current students and then continuing to milk that relationship once the students have graduated and moved on to a working/family life. Other than winning basketball the next best thing Indiana State can do is create lifelong fans among current students if you can't do that then forget it.

Hard work... It's a thankless job at Indiana State - a lot of people working really hard behind closed doors will never get the credit they deserve from this forum. Our attendance doesn't suck because people are not working hard. As Jason pointed out, attendance is down across the country - I guess that means people across the country are slacking?

Enticement & incentives? What do you have in mind?
 
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SycamoreStateofMind said:
Good marketing? What does that look like to you? The best marketing is playing winning basketball the rest seems to take care of its self. You can't market a shitty product -
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Yes this is not just a ISU problem it is a problem nation wide. I took my daughter to a Illini game this winter - high end estimate is 20% full. Guy next to me said attendance has stunk all year. ISUR complained all season about low attendance even when they started winning.

Wichita State is probably the exception, they have had sustain winning and they invested very significantly into there coach. Compare Lansing salary to Marshall. You want to win, then invest! Though I am not sure the investment is worth it. Winning isn't just 2 or 3 years it is a long sustained time frame.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ney-what-does-33m-at-wichita-equal-elsewhere/

As for the stadium size, I assume to be a convention center they would want a certain capacity to attract specific size conventions. I'm guessing, though I don't know for sure, that this is factored into there size planning.
 
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