Sycamores battle for the Victory Bell this week at Ball State

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Sycamorefan96 said:
My point exactly. Spending more on football hasn't worked so why would spending more on basketball work, especially in the age of pay to play? Like BobbyK said, if you don't support the program then don't watch.
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funny how you keep coming back to the argument that “spending more money on basketball won’t work either” even though a) you don’t (and can’t possibly) know that until it is tried but also b) almost everyone against football has said they would still cut it even if not one dime of the money was given over to the basketball program.

If clinks came out today and said we can cut football but we won’t spend any extra money on any other sport any person with any type of financial or business IQ would tell you it is still the smart move long term.

When you are spending more than you can afford the first place you look for cuts is the item in the budget you spend the most on to see where things can be trimmed.

In many ways this argument will solve itself in a few years when football is cut regardless of what anyone on here says. Reality will eliminate the program when the cost to keep the program continues to rise and the amount people are willing to spend in support of it continues to fall.
 
Bluethunder said:
funny how you keep coming back to the argument that “spending more money on basketball won’t work either” even though a) you don’t (and can’t possibly) know that until it is tried but also b) almost everyone against football has said they would still cut it even if not one dime of the money was given over to the basketball program.

If clinks came out today and said we can cut football but we won’t spend any extra money on any other sport any person with any type of financial or business IQ would tell you it is still the smart move long term.

When you are spending more than you can afford the first place you look for cuts is the item in the budget you spend the most on to see where things can be trimmed.

In many ways this argument will solve itself in a few years when football is cut regardless of what anyone on here says. Reality will eliminate the program when the cost to keep the program continues to rise and the amount people are willing to spend in support of it continues to fall.
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Well the students are the ones footing most of the bill, and before you cry crocodile tears for them, just keep in mind that students at basically every single FCS and G5 school with a football team are also footing the bill. You also don't seem to mind them funding men's basketball and all of the other non-revenue sports that would still cost the university anywhere between $12M-$14M annually, assuming the current budget is actually $16M.
 
Hooper said:
Would have loved to see it. He has a tough task at Presbyterian but they're 2-1 and will probably win some more games and compete in the PFL which would be a heck of a coaching job. If Mallory falters the next year or two but ISU doesn't/won't buy him out--and Presbyterian continues to get better and competes for PFL titles in the next year or two--ISU may miss the window on getting him to come home.
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Clinkscales had him, chose Mallory late instead, and won't get another shot at him.
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
Well the students are the ones footing most of the bill, and before you cry crocodile tears for them, just keep in mind that students at basically every single FCS and G5 school with a football team are also footing the bill. You also don't seem to mind them funding men's basketball and all of the other non-revenue sports that would still cost the university anywhere between $12M-$14M annually, assuming the current budget is actually $16M.
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Once again your argument comes down to “well we cant afford most of this stuff so screw it, let’s just keep spending like it’s not real money.”

Or “hey everyone else is making the same bad decision so who cares if we make it too”.

Of course it’s not your money so why should care huh?

Never once do you actually make a strong point in defense of football. You just basically admit it’s a waste of money but the school can’t afford anything else either so what’s one more waste.

Let me ask you another simple question that I’m sure you won’t answer but will instead deflect and try to change the direction of the conversation

If the students did have a voice in paying for football with their elevated fees do you think they would vote in favor of continuing the program? Or would they take the lower tuition bill?

And before you answer, you can’t use your tired previous answers of “well basketball and other sports waste money too so would they vote on that?”

We’re talking about football, the one we spent the most on with the worst results. If you want to talk about the other sports bring it up in their threads.
 
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So, we're on this again. I'll make the argument that football is worth the money. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if we were winning like NDSU, SDSU, UNI, MSU, UM. It's the losing that has everyone irritated.
 
Sycamorefan96 said:
Well the students are the ones footing most of the bill, and before you cry crocodile tears for them, just keep in mind that students at basically every single FCS and G5 school with a football team are also footing the bill. You also don't seem to mind them funding men's basketball and all of the other non-revenue sports that would still cost the university anywhere between $12M-$14M annually, assuming the current budget is actually $16M.
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Of course you won’t cry tears for the students since you directly benefit from their fees. You pay what, 15 bucks to get into a game while they pay several hundred to subsidize it. I can imagine most people wouldn’t complain about a system where they get cheap seats off the backs of others.

If you had to pay per year what the students get charged to subsidize the program would you still attend every game? I think we all know the answer to that. But you will just change the subject by saying how it’s the same for other sports and schools etc and will not answer the question.
 
sycamore tuff said:
So, we're on this again. I'll make the argument that football is worth the money. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if we were winning like NDSU, SDSU, UNI, MSU, UM. It's the losing that has everyone irritated.
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How is it worth the money? And whose money?
 
sycamore tuff said:
So, we're on this again. I'll make the argument that football is worth the money. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if we were winning like NDSU, SDSU, UNI, MSU, UM. It's the losing that has everyone irritated.
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Losing is all they do. It's the losing, consistently for decades now, that makes it not worth the money. The perennial losing is why we're having the discussion. The program is so bad, so abysmal, there is literally nothing else related to it worth talking about. We're not on it again, we're on it until the university actually does something about it. When you have a program so bad, it's obvious your administration just doesn't care, it reflects poorly on the university and as an alumni that reflects poorly on you. People can reasonably ask, is your school even legitimate when it doesn't bother to try? When your school accepts a D or an F performance from your head football coach and gives him a contract extension how does anyone look at it and think it can produce legitimate graduates?
 

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bent20 said:
We've been outscored 113-14 in the first three games of the season. Talk about beating it into the ground.
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Pretty sure everyone on here knows that. We have a bad team. Ding Ding Ding, “We Have A Winner Here Bob”
 
Bluethunder said:
Once again your argument comes down to “well we cant afford most of this stuff so screw it, let’s just keep spending like it’s not real money.”

Or “hey everyone else is making the same bad decision so who cares if we make it too”.

Of course it’s not your money so why should care huh?

Never once do you actually make a strong point in defense of football. You just basically admit it’s a waste of money but the school can’t afford anything else either so what’s one more waste.

Let me ask you another simple question that I’m sure you won’t answer but will instead deflect and try to change the direction of the conversation

If the students did have a voice in paying for football with their elevated fees do you think they would vote in favor of continuing the program? Or would they take the lower tuition bill?

And before you answer, you can’t use your tired previous answers of “well basketball and other sports waste money too so would they vote on that?”

We’re talking about football, the one we spent the most on with the worst results. If you want to talk about the other sports bring it up in their threads.
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Took you 9 days to come up with that?
 
bent20 said:
Losing is all they do. It's the losing, consistently for decades now, that makes it not worth the money. The perennial losing is why we're having the discussion. The program is so bad, so abysmal, there is literally nothing else related to it worth talking about. We're not on it again, we're on it until the university actually does something about it. When you have a program so bad, it's obvious your administration just doesn't care, it reflects poorly on the university and as an alumni that reflects poorly on you. People can reasonably ask, is your school even legitimate when it doesn't bother to try? When your school accepts a D or an F performance from your head football coach and gives him a contract extension how does anyone look at it and think it can produce legitimate graduates?
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Thanks for confirming my point. If we were winning, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead of business as usual or killing the program, why don't we try winning. And by winning I don't mean one or two seasons where we just barely make the playoffs. I'm talking about becoming an fcs power like many of the schools that kick our behinds every year. Then no one wants the program killed off. It wouldn't be making ISU look bad, the students would have a great experience and pride would be back.
 
sycamore tuff said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If we were winning, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead of business as usual or killing the program, why don't we try winning. And by winning I don't mean one or two seasons where we just barely make the playoffs. I'm talking about becoming an fcs power like many of the schools that kick our behinds every year. Then no one wants the program killed off. It wouldn't be making ISU look bad, the students would have a great experience and pride would be back.
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Ok. I love the plan. Where does the money come from to build that?
 

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It's already being spent. The results just aren't there. Not my fault or yours. I appreciate the coach's ability to run a clean program but he should have gotten better results for the amount of money being spent.
 
sycamore tuff said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If we were winning, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead of business as usual or killing the program, why don't we try winning. And by winning I don't mean one or two seasons where we just barely make the playoffs. I'm talking about becoming an fcs power like many of the schools that kick our behinds every year. Then no one wants the program killed off. It wouldn't be making ISU look bad, the students would have a great experience and pride would be back.
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Obviously they would have done that by now if it was simply a matter of saying, "let's try winning for a change." They've shown they can't.
 
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