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The Decline of Terre Haute High School Athletics
- Thread starter sycamore tuff
- Start date
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Benjamin Twitchell class of 2037. Go ahead and create the profile.
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"He's the best high school football player in the Wabash Valley."
sycamore tuff
The Renn Level
Billy Mallory is looking at him as a possible backup wr or return man."He's the best high school football player in the Wabash Valley."
About a year ago now a group of people (myself included) got together to form the Wabash Valley Athletic Association. The main reason this association came to be was simply the poor performance of Vigo County athletic teams specifically North and South football and basketball. * North basketball program mostly excluded but highlights sort of the issue - pockets of marginal success but not at the standard we should be holding our coaches and programs to - zero accountability and just an overall need for improvement in facilities, strength and conditioning, feeder programs, youth program alignment, development and administrative accountability.
The organization has had several meetings with VCSC brass along with local coaches - the corporation is unaffiliated with the association but has basically been endorsed as a trusted partner.
In return, our association purchased with funds we raised a field lining system for the 3 local high schools to use for football, soccer and baseball. It’s more professional and efficient and should save the corporation in the long haul on paint and manpower expenses.
In addition, we’ve had association members be invited to participate in the vetting/hiring of Terre Haute South’s basketball coach who replaced Maynard Lewis and currently involved in the same process to replace the football coach at Terre Haute South.
Contrary to what has been described and shared on this forum - 85% of the people affiliated with Wabash Valley Athletic Association don’t have middle or highschool athletes in the VCSC. A few of them are parents of student athletes who have graduated and went on to be successful college athletes, some are current and former coaches - my point in bringing this up is that most of the people doing this myself included don’t have anything to gain personally such as playing time or a roster spot by being involved in our association. It’s truly just to make local athletics better! The idea that kids of lawyers, business people bla bla bla are getting special privilege and that’s why are athletic programs are down is complete bull shit. Not bull shit that stuff like that doesn’t go on - it goes on a lot of places but that has nothings to do with why most of our athletic programs are in shambles.
Rome wasn’t built in a day - but I can share that with the associations encouragement all 3 local high schools will be hiring full time strength and conditioning coaches/teachers in the next 6 months. These individuals will be responsible for working with coaches and athletes on training programs throughout the school year.
I think moving forward you will continue to see a big push from us to raise a significant amount of money to help fund project needs for VCSC athletic programs, a potential takeover of the Vigo County Youth Football program and some overall standards and support to help build a better feeder system between elementary > middle school programs to hopefully create some continuity helping those lower level coaches on development, training plans, plays/schemes to teach etc.
So that is sort of some of the things that I know are being done. As far as the talent we are churning out year over year - it’s not what it once was. South and North are both losing athletes at an alarming rate to Northview, South Vermillion, Sullivan and Northcentral Farmersburg. Most of the good youth programs around here have to poach from those surrounding counties in IN and IL to find enough talent to put a decent roster together. Which is great for development now but long term most of those kids will end up playing against eachother as they gravitate back to the county they reside in.
I could keep going - but that gives you some things to think about and discuss from my perspective. I don’t think I know even half of the things I need to know to fully understand why it’s fallen off so bad - but I know sitting back and doing nothing and not having an opinion and offering solutions is not the way forward.
If you made it through this post… Lol
The organization has had several meetings with VCSC brass along with local coaches - the corporation is unaffiliated with the association but has basically been endorsed as a trusted partner.
In return, our association purchased with funds we raised a field lining system for the 3 local high schools to use for football, soccer and baseball. It’s more professional and efficient and should save the corporation in the long haul on paint and manpower expenses.
In addition, we’ve had association members be invited to participate in the vetting/hiring of Terre Haute South’s basketball coach who replaced Maynard Lewis and currently involved in the same process to replace the football coach at Terre Haute South.
Contrary to what has been described and shared on this forum - 85% of the people affiliated with Wabash Valley Athletic Association don’t have middle or highschool athletes in the VCSC. A few of them are parents of student athletes who have graduated and went on to be successful college athletes, some are current and former coaches - my point in bringing this up is that most of the people doing this myself included don’t have anything to gain personally such as playing time or a roster spot by being involved in our association. It’s truly just to make local athletics better! The idea that kids of lawyers, business people bla bla bla are getting special privilege and that’s why are athletic programs are down is complete bull shit. Not bull shit that stuff like that doesn’t go on - it goes on a lot of places but that has nothings to do with why most of our athletic programs are in shambles.
Rome wasn’t built in a day - but I can share that with the associations encouragement all 3 local high schools will be hiring full time strength and conditioning coaches/teachers in the next 6 months. These individuals will be responsible for working with coaches and athletes on training programs throughout the school year.
I think moving forward you will continue to see a big push from us to raise a significant amount of money to help fund project needs for VCSC athletic programs, a potential takeover of the Vigo County Youth Football program and some overall standards and support to help build a better feeder system between elementary > middle school programs to hopefully create some continuity helping those lower level coaches on development, training plans, plays/schemes to teach etc.
So that is sort of some of the things that I know are being done. As far as the talent we are churning out year over year - it’s not what it once was. South and North are both losing athletes at an alarming rate to Northview, South Vermillion, Sullivan and Northcentral Farmersburg. Most of the good youth programs around here have to poach from those surrounding counties in IN and IL to find enough talent to put a decent roster together. Which is great for development now but long term most of those kids will end up playing against eachother as they gravitate back to the county they reside in.
I could keep going - but that gives you some things to think about and discuss from my perspective. I don’t think I know even half of the things I need to know to fully understand why it’s fallen off so bad - but I know sitting back and doing nothing and not having an opinion and offering solutions is not the way forward.
If you made it through this post… Lol
SycamoreBlue3209
The Newsom Level
I believe Kyle is pretty involved and would know more about the AAU basketball programs in the Valley…our oldest is only is 1st grade, so I’m pretty limited on what I know.
What I have seen is the Wabash Valley Sports Center participation is very high. I really don’t know anyone that has their kid playing in a youth league at B&G’s Club. My oldest is in the 1st and 2nd grade division and there are 31 team (8 or 9 on each. Seems like pretty high participation along with kids at B&G’s, and West Vigo.
Don’t know much in the way of AAU youth basketball around here. AAU baseball is really big though.
What I have seen is the Wabash Valley Sports Center participation is very high. I really don’t know anyone that has their kid playing in a youth league at B&G’s Club. My oldest is in the 1st and 2nd grade division and there are 31 team (8 or 9 on each. Seems like pretty high participation along with kids at B&G’s, and West Vigo.
Don’t know much in the way of AAU youth basketball around here. AAU baseball is really big though.
With regards to football, until the VCSC provides school teams at the middle school level, you won't convince me they're serious about competing. As far as all sports maybe the size of the schools at North and South are a part of the reason kids are leaving. Easier to compete at the lower class of schools.
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sycamore tuff
The Renn Level
How does the boys club have leagues? They gave up their facility on 3rd St that had 4 or 5 courts. They moved to Chauncey Rose and then to a grade school behind Menards. I doubt they have multiple courts there.
Bottom line is North and South are way too big. If they ever want to build a new school in Vigo County then maybe they should consider building one out east somewhere and have 4 high schools rather than 3. Consolidation may save some money, but it is awful for the kids that get shoved into those schools. It's honestly pretty awful for the athletics too. Instead of being able to play in a regional conference, they have to go play Bloomington, Indianapolis, and Columbus schools. North and South both got kicked out of the MIC if I remember correctly because the Indy schools were tired of making trips way out west to Terre Haute. The WIC won't invite them because they're too big.
I went to North my Freshman year and I did alright there, but I finally convinced my parents to let me go to Riverton Parke my last three years and it was one of the best thing that ever happened to me. (I personally wanted to go straight to RP after Otter Creek.) My Freshman class at North was 686, while Riverton Parke had 400 kids in the entire school including the Junior High wing. My graduating class there had 70. As a matter of fact I think my high school was a couple hundred smaller than Other Creek even though it had 6 grades in the school.
In hindsight if I could do it all over I would have went to Rosedale in elementary, and then RP 7th-12th. If I ever have kids they will not be attending any school in the VCSC system east of the river, so it's pretty easy to see why the people that can are pulling their kids from North and South and sending them to smaller schools in surrounding areas.
I went to North my Freshman year and I did alright there, but I finally convinced my parents to let me go to Riverton Parke my last three years and it was one of the best thing that ever happened to me. (I personally wanted to go straight to RP after Otter Creek.) My Freshman class at North was 686, while Riverton Parke had 400 kids in the entire school including the Junior High wing. My graduating class there had 70. As a matter of fact I think my high school was a couple hundred smaller than Other Creek even though it had 6 grades in the school.
In hindsight if I could do it all over I would have went to Rosedale in elementary, and then RP 7th-12th. If I ever have kids they will not be attending any school in the VCSC system east of the river, so it's pretty easy to see why the people that can are pulling their kids from North and South and sending them to smaller schools in surrounding areas.
SycamoreSuperFan
The Sycamore Level
I have to say I completely disagree. The only reason people get upset about building one big school when it comes to athletics is they know their kid, who is ok but not that good, won’t have an opportunity to compete at a varsity level like they would at North or South. I’ve never once heard someone complain that the schools right now are too big. In theory, one school would make us more competitive but would also require us to compete with some of the even higher A schools in IHSAA tournament. Also, what about consolidation is awful for kids?
While traveling for Conference Indiana, what THS/N play in is a bit annoying, I always enjoyed competing against those schools as they had some of the better soccer teams in the southern half of the state. The same is true for most sports.
All in all, I am disappointed with the massive downswing in athletics around here. However, I appreciate those like SSOM who are putting in the effort to try and turn things around. I love TH and I think it’s on track for a comeback, hopefully.
About a year ago now a group of people (myself included) got together to form the Wabash Valley Athletic Association. The main reason this association came to be was simply the poor performance of Vigo County athletic teams specifically North and South football and basketball. * North basketball program mostly excluded but highlights sort of the issue - pockets of marginal success but not at the standard we should be holding our coaches and programs to - zero accountability and just an overall need for improvement in facilities, strength and conditioning, feeder programs, youth program alignment, development and administrative accountability.
The organization has had several meetings with VCSC brass along with local coaches - the corporation is unaffiliated with the association but has basically been endorsed as a trusted partner.
In return, our association purchased with funds we raised a field lining system for the 3 local high schools to use for football, soccer and baseball. It’s more professional and efficient and should save the corporation in the long haul on paint and manpower expenses.
In addition, we’ve had association members be invited to participate in the vetting/hiring of Terre Haute South’s basketball coach who replaced Maynard Lewis and currently involved in the same process to replace the football coach at Terre Haute South.
Contrary to what has been described and shared on this forum - 85% of the people affiliated with Wabash Valley Athletic Association don’t have middle or highschool athletes in the VCSC. A few of them are parents of student athletes who have graduated and went on to be successful college athletes, some are current and former coaches - my point in bringing this up is that most of the people doing this myself included don’t have anything to gain personally such as playing time or a roster spot by being involved in our association. It’s truly just to make local athletics better! The idea that kids of lawyers, business people bla bla bla are getting special privilege and that’s why are athletic programs are down is complete bull shit. Not bull shit that stuff like that doesn’t go on - it goes on a lot of places but that has nothings to do with why most of our athletic programs are in shambles.
Rome wasn’t built in a day - but I can share that with the associations encouragement all 3 local high schools will be hiring full time strength and conditioning coaches/teachers in the next 6 months. These individuals will be responsible for working with coaches and athletes on training programs throughout the school year.
I think moving forward you will continue to see a big push from us to raise a significant amount of money to help fund project needs for VCSC athletic programs, a potential takeover of the Vigo County Youth Football program and some overall standards and support to help build a better feeder system between elementary > middle school programs to hopefully create some continuity helping those lower level coaches on development, training plans, plays/schemes to teach etc.
So that is sort of some of the things that I know are being done. As far as the talent we are churning out year over year - it’s not what it once was. South and North are both losing athletes at an alarming rate to Northview, South Vermillion, Sullivan and Northcentral Farmersburg. Most of the good youth programs around here have to poach from those surrounding counties in IN and IL to find enough talent to put a decent roster together. Which is great for development now but long term most of those kids will end up playing against eachother as they gravitate back to the county they reside in.
I could keep going - but that gives you some things to think about and discuss from my perspective. I don’t think I know even half of the things I need to know to fully understand why it’s fallen off so bad - but I know sitting back and doing nothing and not having an opinion and offering solutions is not the way forward.
If you made it through this post… Lol
Edited title since you finally gave us a novel.
I feel like the conversation deserved my best effort… I just needed like 10 mins of peace and quiet to collect my thoughts on the subject.
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In hindsight your father decides where you will have gone to school. So let’s just defer to him on where he would have sent you to school had he the opportunity to do it over again.
You don’t have kids and your mind is absolutely flooded with nonsense - so we won’t be counting on you for future enrollment numbers.
They are actually having serious talks about getting out of youth sports all-together for the reasons you have discussed. They’ve really lost themselves as far as youth sports are concerned and I’m not sure how they ever get back to what it once was. Highly unlikely.
Thanks! @meistro is part of the association as well and while not directly involved with the association @Southgrad07 us very involved with his kid and coaching youth sports. Probably several others on here that I don’t realize.
I don’t know what will happen with the high schools… If it were up to me here is what I would do and I’m not sure anything like this is even up for consideration but this makes sense in my brain:
A) Start building a completely new high school campus central to east side of town. With the goal once finished of combining north and south. Leave west alone.
B) I’d probably either then sell one or both of those properties the current schools are on or better yet - I’d demo and build new middle schools.
- Where south is located would be where Honey Creek and Sarah Scott students go once complete.
- Where north is located would be where Otter Creek and Woodrow Wilson students would go once complete.
- Leave west alone.
C) Then I’d address the elementary schools in a similar way. This way you’ve cut down on the amount of facilities you have to manage from 3 high schools to 2 from 5 middle schools to 3 and so on with the elementary schools. It will help introduce kids to larger school sizes at an earlier age and will free up some real estate to be sold.
From a maintenance, staffing, upkeep perspective we just have way too many schools that we have to manage - it’s unnecessary. So I think you start with the most pressing need the high schools address that need first by combining them and then the middle schools and lastly the elementary schools.
Bottom line - a long long way to go. But some movement is being made I feel.
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SycamoreSuperFan
The Sycamore Level
There really is nothing like watching your team/school/town compete for championships, especially in basketball and football where the city can rally around! With your help and others, we will be able to compete and do those things. Really appreciate all you do for TH
I thought Terre Haute hated football and wouldn't support a winning team. Which is it?
Less opportunity for the kids that go to those schools. Usually higher student to teacher ratios. Less community. Definitely less school pride. I mean you could see it in person when Northview was playing North in the championship of the most prestigious tournament in this region. North's student section was pathetic for a school that size and I think North fans overall were outnumbered by Northview fans in their own gym.
Regardless of sports, any high school that's larger than 1000 is too big if you want a majority of the students there to have a good experience. Of course if all you care about is sports and completing with Indy schools, rather than the quality of the education and the student experience, I suppose having a school of 3500-4500 is perfectly fine.
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SycamoreSuperFan
The Sycamore Level
I hear this all the time from small colleges talking about student to professor ratio. I attend a large university south of TH and frequently have large classes. You get out what you put in, no matter how big the school. If you want to develop and have a relationship with your professor in a 300 person size class, it is possible. It’s whether or not you put in the effort to attend office hours, stay after class and talk, email them, etc. That’s just one argument I don’t care for, personally. I can see the appeal of small schools for sure though!
SycamoreSuperFan
The Sycamore Level
Correct, I believe they are around 1,400-1,600 now.
Yeah they are and South is actually bigger than North now